Abandon capitalist system - Numsa
Fin24

Abandon capitalist system - Numsa

2014-03-02 13:54

Johannesburg - The National Union of Metalworkers of SA on Sunday called for capitalism to be abandoned saying it had failed South Africans.

"We at Numsa have no illusion that only a total destruction of capitalism and all it represents, can save the earth and give birth to a new civilisation," Irvin Jim told reporters in Johannesburg.

Jim said capitalism was imported by colonialism.

"The SA capitalist state did not emerge as a result of an internal popular anti-feudal revolution."

He said capitalism had depended heavily on imperialist centres.

Jim said 20 years after the democratic transition, the colonial status of the black majority had remained in place.

Out of the 26 million South Africans who live in abject poverty, 25 million were Africans and this was proof enough that capitalism had failed.

"All economic policies since 1994 have been incapable of defeating colonialism of a special type and the effects of apartheid capitalism, which condemned the SA black working class to a life of misery and hardship," said Jim.


Comments
  • Jason Marriott - 2014-03-02 14:09

    What is not a colonialist system? Dictatorship the African way just look north to see how well that system works.

      Alan Smith - 2014-03-02 14:39

      Yes abandon it and adopt the north korean authoratarian system or the collapsed soviet communist system. No need then for houses or water or electricity. These power hungry union clowns are so transparent

      Alan Smith - 2014-03-02 14:39

      Yes abandon it and adopt the north korean authoratarian system or the collapsed soviet communist system. No need then for houses or water or electricity. These power hungry union clowns are so transparent

      JimGordon - 2014-03-02 14:41

      Numsa believes in socialism for the workers, capitalism for the union bosses.

      Ted Bug - 2014-03-02 14:45

      This guy was frozen for 30 years and just woke up spouting communist claptrap. Eish.

      Desilusionada - 2014-03-02 14:57

      "Out of the 26 million South Africans who live in abject poverty, 25 million were Africans and this was proof enough that capitalism had failed." So who is this 1 000 000 "others"? Are they perhaps "colonialists"? Like in white people? 1 000 000 out of not 5 million? More whites in abject poverty percentage wise than there are blacks?.....

      Revelgen - 2014-03-02 15:24

      Yeah NUMSA, Communism is a MUCH better system It has only destroyed a few dozen countries really, and North Korea is a current shining example of its success. Why don't you emigrate there? Just be careful pisspot haircut Kim Jong Un doesn't execute you, as he he recently did his uncle and girlfriend.

      Johnathan Mann - 2014-03-02 16:04

      US GDP = 13,000bn South Africa GDP = 580bn North Korea GDP = 12bn Cuba GDP = 60bn South Korea GDP = 1300bn South Korea was as poor as Mozambique 60 years ago. Today it's economy is almost 3 times larger than the South African economy. Free market capitalism is the answer. Look at Botswana. Our neighbour: income is almost double what South Africans make a year. Low taxes 15%. Capitalism. And if you consider 16 million aren't really working. They live off social grants. Which economic system allows that? Communism? Everyone worked themselves to death, owned nothing and at the end of it in 1990 the income of capitalist West Germany was 6 times higher than that of communist East Germany. And East Germany was the richest of the Soviet states - precisely because it was located close to West Germany.

      Linds Ron-House - 2014-03-02 16:11

      Quite a number of people cannot tell the difference between a political and an economic system. 100% capitalism as a political system does not exist and it cannot exist. An economic system is about creating wealth and increasing the national income, while a political system is about sharing that national income. Consequently, all governments around the world have a socialist agenda. The UK for example, spends at least 40% of its budget on social security. That's socialism.

  • Stefan Buys - 2014-03-02 14:10

    Fair comment Mr Jim. However, what has the ruling party done about this 'capitalism' for its supporters the last 20 years? Further more, taking into account cultural, social and economic factors, would it not make sense to realise that it will take a generation or two for previously disadvantaged people to play a vital role in our economy. It starts with education and a will to advance. The young up and coming black generation is here Mr Jim. Embrace it and utilise it as an example for the rest to follow!

      Buks Burger - 2014-03-02 14:33

      Actually not a fair comment but a moronic statement. Clearly he did not study economics but he wish to comment on it.

      Ted Bug - 2014-03-02 14:46

      He wouldn't have been a metal worker if he studied economics...

      BuksBurger - 2014-03-02 14:51

      Then he should comment on issues about metal working.

  • Carla Smith - 2014-03-02 14:16

    Yes because communism has worked so well for so many other nations.

  • Julian Edward Frost - 2014-03-02 14:17

    "Remove Capitalism." And replace it with what, exactly? Communism? That's been abandoned by most countries that tried it. As to why the majority have not been uplifted, how about looking at the incompetents in government who wrecked education, made it nearly impossible to found a business, act with hostility to foreign investment, and steal billions through mismanagement and corruption every year? Oh wait, it's easier to blame capitalism than to fix the problems.

      Nicola Rushin nee Davis - 2014-03-02 14:24

      Well said, Julian. In a nutshell.

      Amdyn - 2014-03-02 14:53

      @Bongani : So you are advocating a system which everyone agrees won't work because it is unimplementable ? Or are you saying communism works, just nobody implements it "properly" ? Or what ?

      BuksBurger - 2014-03-02 14:53

      Bongani, because it is a failed system eg. the freeloader concept which makes the country so unproductive it can't compete internationally. We live in a global capitalist world and we can't live in a socialistic bubble.

      BuksBurger - 2014-03-02 15:30

      OMG. Clearly you didn't even understand the basic concepts I mentioned why Marxism fail and then you called me uninformed? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH! Back away from the keyboard and take a course in economics please.

      Amdyn - 2014-03-02 15:45

      Bongani - I am not arguing about whether communism was implemented or not. I am asking you if you are advocating communism as the solution ?

      trev2 - 2014-03-02 16:02

      The unions are the biggest cause of poverty in this country. Capitalism is bad if it means control by a few monopoly businesses, but free enterprise favouring the small business is the way to go. The unions' unreasonable "demands" and continual strikes are what are setting our economy back, and is also one of the biggest reasons for our high unemployment. Reduce the power of the unions (and the power of capitalist monopolies too), and encourage small business, i.e. let's have free enterprise, not socialism or state control.

  • Lindokuhle Mhlongo - 2014-03-02 14:22

    no! remove incompetence, greed & corruption.

      Stefan Buys - 2014-03-02 14:27

      Can't agree with you more!

      Jenny Webbe - 2014-03-02 14:45

      Thank you Lindokuhle - in a nutshell.

      Ted Bug - 2014-03-02 14:47

      Let's remove unions...

      Ian Lowe - 2014-03-02 15:49

      Hello Lindokuhle .... you stabbed it in the gut. Salute ....

  • Boris Lenagry - 2014-03-02 14:23

    Communism has killed more than 50 million people but hey! Lets give it another try....

  • Paul Ryan - 2014-03-02 14:27

    End the capitalist system? What year is this 1890? Only an idiot looks at the evidence, sees that it consistently hasnt worked in every single country that has tried a communal style economic system, then says thats the one for me. It takes a special style of stupidity to do that yet it is prevalent in SA politics.

  • Johan Kriek - 2014-03-02 14:28

    Maybe 25mil South Africans should try to work for what they want instead of expecting others to work and hand it over to them!

  • Ant ABomb - 2014-03-02 14:28

    It was the NP and now ANC that failed. Not capitalism. Place blame where it's due.

  • Sandile E Mchunu - 2014-03-02 14:29

    mxm they must just keep quiet if they is nthng to say...

  • keobakile - 2014-03-02 14:34

    Socialism is the future ...

      Andre Keyter - 2014-03-02 14:50

      When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

      Buks Burger - 2014-03-02 15:15

      Socialism = freeloaders = unproductivity = printing money = Zimbabwe.

  • Mfelasakhe Mahlangu - 2014-03-02 14:36

    I thought they were just crazy. Now it's getting serious. They actually believe it. They have gone beyond the stage they can be convinced by rational means. I declare them insane. They need psychological help. I call for group counselling.

  • Richard Nieckau - 2014-03-02 14:37

    These unions boys are cornered in an alley with no where to go. Blaming others for your pitfalls again? South Africa is dying for better leadership & men with balls who can admit wrong doings - not promote it!

  • Mfelasakhe Mahlangu - 2014-03-02 14:37

    I thought they were just crazy. Now it's getting serious. They actually believe it. They have gone beyond the stage they can be convinced by rational means. I declare them insane. They need psychological help. I call for group counselling.

  • Buks Burger - 2014-03-02 14:38

    It is brilliant how this people make stupid comments. According to them capitalism failed but they keep silent on how the supposed "other system" will work.

      BuksBurger - 2014-03-02 15:39

      If their is a better system it certainly has not been invented yet, but it certainly isn't socialism. The closest implementations ever has been in Latin America and see how well it worked for them.

      Andre Jacobs - 2014-03-02 16:27

      Yes the alternative can only be something like communism (the Swazi king has proven that not even a kingdom will work). The funny thing with a communist state is that the rulers on top must TRADE like true Capitalists with the products that the slaves, or the country produced, as to bring capital into their coffers. The masses are now just forbidden to do that and the select few will have that privilege and thus CONTROL the idiots down the line. Let us hope Jim will read these comments and that he will see he must go back to school again.

  • Hermann Schwindt - 2014-03-02 14:45

    Capitalism? We have to much government interference to have a capitalistic economy!

  • Vincent Ndlovu - 2014-03-02 14:46

    Some unions in South Africa need be dissolved they're feeding us rubbish.

  • Johnny Comments - 2014-03-02 14:51

    Pray tell what is the alternative you are suggesting Mr Jim? Just because the current government is failing South Africans, doesn't mean an economic system is failing. "Jim said 20 years after the democratic transition, the colonial status of the black majority had remained in place." Here is the exact problem, current ANC elite and black connected elite are enriching themselves off the back of us the black majority. If you are really serious about changing capitalism, go to Mr Ramaphosa (I imagine as alliance partner you have all the ANC top dogs on speed dial) post 1994 billionaire and ask him what he thinks and how all his capitalistic riches can be given back to us. Start with those closest to you and work your way out.

  • Andrew Smit - 2014-03-02 14:55

    Why is it that the countries of the world with the highest standard of living are capitalist economies? The Scandinavians dabble with an small element of socialism but are essentially capitalists.

      frederikrudolph.vandyk - 2014-03-02 15:29

      In fact, they are seeing ruptions and troubles that are emerging after many years of tainting their excellent free matket with social democratic policies...google Sweden's growth and unrest

  • Mark Anthony Fysh - 2014-03-02 14:57

    NUMSA want to steel everything - for a moer of a party, perhaps. Only trouble is the hangover will last 100 years.

  • Petal McLelland - 2014-03-02 14:58

    Capitalism is ok, it's the CRONY Capitalism that's killing us...

  • cuan.wood - 2014-03-02 14:59

    Blah blah blah, let's all go back to hunting animals with sticks and stones, painting humanities greatest achievements in caves and breed ourselves into tribalist conflict. What a ...

  • Anthony Raft - 2014-03-02 14:59

    Capitalism has not failed. The ANC and its policies and corrupt senior officials have failed the people of South Africa. And I believe the unions have never had a positive influence on the country. All your riots and violence at protest marches have not contributed positively to South Africa’s success. The ANC and the unions are driving an economically viable country into an economic abyss.

  • Jones Mosima - 2014-03-02 15:02

    Communism or socialism will not work in RSA. Survival of the fittest. The foundation of this country reaLly does not allow such. Let it be such- a competitive one, If you do not like it you can go reside in Venezuela or Bolivia were capitalism does not exist-Mr Irvin.

  • Stefano Lavarone - 2014-03-02 15:03

    Hahahahahahaha.... These clowns never fail to amuse.

  • Bastille French - 2014-03-02 15:05

    I believe that capitalism can be used as a force for change, as it has done for the man in the last two hundred years, equality of opportunity is what we should be fighting for, that all 60 million south africans, irrespective of where they are born, will get all the relevant support to fight for his bread in this highly competitive global village. Govt is the key to our future through a free market social framework. All that's needed is a highly efficient govt, a concerted effort by govt to encourage the formation of new enterprises, increasing the number of new enterprises per year at least by 10%. This can be done by giving any person who registers a pty or cc or co operative with dti, 10% in monetary terms of the total market capitalization of his start up, ofcourse the govt will own ten per cent stakes in all new enterprises, govt, can especially buy into entities that are devoid of collateral, many of which don't have a biz plan, and start up capital.

  • Mashai Joannes - 2014-03-02 15:10

    I beg to differ.the capitalist sysytem strives for individual excellence to reach higher level of self-realisation and actualisation.in our case,corruption has become institutionalised and it is eroding the very fundamental values the republic was founded upon whch include the principle of inclusivity towards the development of the republic.until such time citizens force politicians to bcum responsible dere won't b any end to the poverty levels,poor education standards,health care.the statusquo requires active citizenry n not these socialist rhetorics cn encourage ppl to remain idle and overdependence on state welfare resources

  • Revelgen - 2014-03-02 15:23

    Yeah NUMSA, Communism is a MUCH better system It has only destroyed a few dozen countries really, and North Korea is a current shining example of its success. Why don't you emigrate there? Just be careful pisspot haircut Kim Jong Un doesn't execute you, as he he recently did his uncle and girlfriend.

  • Siyaxolisa Matomela - 2014-03-02 15:23

    Will change capitalism to what ? Communism ? Inorder to achieve communism the workers mind set shuld change, "instead of working because they have to, people will work because they want to, both out of a sense of responsibility to society and because work satisfies a felt need in their own lives". Do u think SA workers that strike everyday wuld ever change their mind set ? This is jst one of many requiremnts to achieve communism

      Robert David Allam - 2014-03-02 15:39

      Hee hee heee bwahahahaha. Dream on. Even the Cubans don't believe this fairytale.

  • frederikrudolph.vandyk - 2014-03-02 15:23

    Capitalism rewards the honest, liberty-loving, hard-working, thinking, tolerant and individualist human-being. It fails the self-indulgent fraudster, by alienating the people from him

  • frederikrudolph.vandyk - 2014-03-02 15:26

    Capitalism and free-marketeers are all thats keeps the looted economy going. Continue bridling the countrys producers and this nation WILL fall...guaranteed. You saw Zim and even Lenin's short lived utopia before he admitted defeat and imposed free-market reforms (NEP 1920's)

  • Arie Gerhardus Fredrick Potgieter - 2014-03-02 15:29

    It always amazes me that the true capitalists are always shouting burn capitalism! Why aren't you guys the first to sell your savvy BMW's and distribute your income with those you intent to recruit? Capitalism rewards the ambitious and hard worker, unfortunately also the politicians, but an intellectual democracy would have prevented it.

  • Searcher SA - 2014-03-02 15:32

    Hold on guys, this guy is an intellectual genius and has done many indepth studies on Capatilism vs Socialism, he is about as informed as they come. Just look at the pained expression on his face, he is a real thinker. Well that's what he would like us to think anyway. Personally I think he is mentally quite primitive and clearly belongs back in the stone age.

  • Mart Botha - 2014-03-02 15:37

    Oh get serious man......any system you choose will fail while the worth of a man is measured by the number of children he can sire, as is the case here (and in many other parts of the world). A recent study by mentally deranged inmates at Valkenburg, concluded that the population explosion from 5 million people to 55 million people in 100 years has done more damage to quality of life potential than any government or system could ever do.......so much so that short of any deliberate 'cleansing' of numbers in the absence of any monumental natural (or man made) disasters, that the outlook for the masses is bleak indeed. When Albert Einstein defined INSANITY as doing the same things over and over again...and expecting a different result, I am sure he was talking about voting for a political party that keeps promising and fails to deliver ....and then blames everyone and every thing for their own inadequacies and lies.

  • Ian Lowe - 2014-03-02 15:47

    And socialism works where now ? Hmmmm

  • Shock & Awe - 2014-03-02 16:12

    Yes that's right ... Tell your black brother Cyril ..when he gives it all away and moves into the township ..I'll do it too. And replace it with WHAT? Precisely .. Irwin?! You're clearly lacking even the remotest possibility of having a brain cell.

  • Alex Bax - 2014-03-02 17:39

    Trust me NUMSA, if you abandon capitalism, capitalism will also abandon you, prepare for the sudden loss of billions of Rand, withdrawal of masave investments, emigration of thousands of those that can, the rich, your intellects, Drs. And this will be of all races - You will be left with those who can't run away. Welcome to a possible DRC scenario. Hope you chaps have thought this one through?

  • Richard Nieckau - 2014-03-02 17:54

    Look at African American's - the majority of them are in as much confusion as to who they are intrinsically, as the majority of African people living in South Africa. I am not certain this situation will come right any time soon in a country with such Diversity as ours. One thing is for sure, NOBODY likes being FORCED to do ANYTHING.

  • Richard Nieckau - 2014-03-02 17:59

    Capitalism has many flaws.. the most obvious is that it allows ruthless people to abuse weak people for the sake of some imaginary currency. Don't forget its humans after all that invented and control the system --> silly to blame a system for YOUR failures :-)

  • Melusi Spyda Mnisi - 2014-03-02 18:56

    land is important for a lot of things. without it how can you have true wealth.

  • harold.marsberg - 2014-03-02 19:33

    What always amazes me is that everyone blames everything possible for the failures of the state,.......but they overlook one or two simple and very basic facts. The country does not produce enough to support it's people......very low productivity and the price of labour is uncompetitive with other emerging economies. But the biggest problem we face is our population growth that is mushrooming unchallenged. Our birthrate is just out of control and no one says anything because our culture tells us that we have to push out more brats as soon as we can, irrespective of whether we can provide for the poor mite. The state exacerbates this with giving a child grant to every teenage girl who pushes one out, irrespective of the fact that she dumps the poor child with gogo and used the money for hair and clothes......Our country needs to address the population explosion.....lets go for the chinese policy......we mos worship that lot!! At least they have got that one right.

  • Truth.speak - 2014-03-02 20:04

    You guys are jokers and dreamers. Where has communism or socialism ever succeeded before?

  • Phelamanga - 2014-03-02 21:03

    Let's just remind Irvin Jim that communism and socialism also came to South Africa through colonialism and that these ideologies were given birth to in those former colonial powers. Capitalism on the other hand developed in various guises in various parts of the world thousands of years ago. Socialist and communist ideology came about as a reaction to industrialisation rather than to capitalism. Even a traditional custom like lobola is capitalist in nature as it is the exchange of capital in the form of cattle for the acquirement of a wife. Hiw will socialism deal with this when all farms and farm animals are nationalized under a socialist system? Therefore, it us all very well to attack the colonists, but you must also not forget that socialism is am imported ideology and is not the result of a popular revolution. The fact that there are so many South Africans who live in poverty is as a result of government policy over the past twenty years and the massive corruption in the last five years in particular. Added to that, the ANC's anti-middle class stance has resulted in mass poverty. This was not the policy of colonial governments.

  • Sarel W Brits - 2014-03-02 22:44

    What we've got here IS failure to THINK, or perhaps a Brain fart.....most probably the brain fart!

  • Nathy Masekwameng - 2014-03-02 23:37

    Ok. Jimmy we abandon capitalism and Nationalize the whole metal industry, is this what you think it will improve life of blacks in metal industry? Good living wage is the only way to go Jimmy. Is either we nationalize or we capitalize,but if we Nationalize our greedy politicians are going to be much richer than now. We don't want this country to be one of the failure counties. If you can't beat them join them.

  • jungleboy - 2014-03-02 23:49

    The stupidity of the comment reinforces my relief Jim is clueless and a danger to .SA. Even Cuba is turning away from these rediculous ideologies becuause the simply don't work.

      jungleboy - 2014-03-02 23:56

      If you want to see the results of his ideologies look no further than the SABC, .SAA Eskom, Transnet etc. The results speak for themselves.

  • Kevin Marsh - 2014-03-03 06:16

    Whilst the ANC works very hard to destroy SA please show me a country North of our borders that has an economy and infrastructure like SA . Who do you thank ? Capitalism and the whiteys who built up the economy prior to 1994 . After that the ANC has screwed up SAA , SAPO, SABC , Eskom , Telkom , Education , health care , social grants , housing , AA to name a few. Andy then you blame your only salvation - capitalism .

  • Kobus Pienaar - 2014-03-03 06:26

    And here we go talking about implementing a system (comunism, socialism) that has failed everywhere else.....sound familiar? (E-toll, OBE, etc.) Why do we think in SA we can make things work that has failed everywhere else? Because these systems opens the doors for corruption!!. It is easy to blame missing money on failed systems. Come on citizens of SA. Wake up to what is really happening around you.

  • Kevin Seyffert - 2014-03-03 09:39

    Idiot! No economic system is flawless. That said socialism is a recipe for disaster. There is No incentive system for excellence. Those that work and those that can it be bothered get the same so why should anyone work???

  • Viaan De Bruin - 2014-03-03 12:35

    yes yes abandon it you thick twat... its not working because your leaders are stealing everything. Capitalism also works if the lazy bunch actually does something to work themselves out of poverty and contribute to the economy!!

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