Fin24

Equity act 'won't affect coloureds'

2012-07-16 10:50

Johannesburg - Changes to the Employment Equity Act should not result in coloured and Indian workers losing their jobs in some provinces, Business Day reported on Monday.

The amendment bill, which has not yet been published, is believed to leave the present regulatory regime much the same.

The amendments still need to be presented to cabinet for approval, but if approved would give the labour minister the power to produce regulations on the employment equity regulations.

According to the newspaper, this was after negotiations between business, labour, and the government on the proposed amendments to the act were finalised in the National Economic Development and Labour Council (Nedlac).

Last year trade union Solidarity said about 1 million coloured people could lose their jobs if amendments to the Employment Equity Act become law.

The amendment that concerned the union was that employment equity should be based on national demographics.

This would have meant that in the Western Cape coloureds could lose jobs, while Indians would have been affected in KwaZulu-Natal.

But the amendments do not significantly change the current situation, where employers can choose to use national or regional demographic statistics to calculate their employment equity targets.

In expressing its concern over the proposed amendments last year, Solidarity posted a video on YouTube of government spokesperson Jimmy Manyi, who was then the director general of labour, saying there was an "over-supply" of coloured people in the Western Cape.

He made the comment in March 2010.

Manyi later said he had been speaking in his capacity as Black Management Forum president.

 

Comments
  • Rabbler.Rouser - 2012-07-16 11:01

    According to Manyi, you change caps to make stupid utterings and that's ok. That explains why Blade Nzimande keeps speaking with a forked tongue.

      george.dinta - 2012-07-16 12:00

      How are u all doing on our racist news paper. Still doing the same thing as we were all doing yesterday...? Pushing racism, I use to hate it now I like it. Maybe we should arrange racist games and compete against Australia and other racist countries to see who is more racist. What do you guys think?

      oomkrummel.krummel - 2012-07-16 12:08

      Who's doing the thinking up there..??? OK..don't answer...I know...

      JaredVN - 2012-07-16 12:21

      The story is completely misleading. I quote directly from the Business Day article: "However, the amendment bill — which has not yet been published as it will first be presented to the Cabinet for approval — is believed to leave the present regulatory regime very much the same, with the exception that the labour minister will have the power to produce regulations on the matter" In other words, what the cANCer is saying, is that we should just trust the labour minister not to be as RACIST as the rest of this cANCerous, Nazi-like regime. Should the labour minister decide he doesn't like coloureds, he can impose rules forcing Western Cape employers to use national demography.

      NrGx - 2012-07-16 12:24

      Regardless of they say, these "policies" will directly result in any race other than black, potentially lose their job based solely on race. The anc has again shown their true intentions as a racist organisation. The irony is (which they cannot understand) the more of these "policies" they put in place, the less their tax collection becomes, ultimately shooting themselves in the foot. The saying "Biting the hand that feeds you" comes to mind!

      walter.o.latham - 2012-07-16 12:35

      Even more reason now for a mass exodus of qualified people with a white skin leaving the country in their droves. Slowly, slowly and then more rapidly this country will follow in the footsteps of that fool north of us and another pariah state in the making.

      George - 2012-07-16 12:47

      @walter.o.latham, I am in where do you suggest we go, Greece? EU? Are this things really work getting worked out? I say take a savana, dry.... but you can drink it

      aaron.radebe.1 - 2012-07-17 08:33

      Is this a new thing - that equity is now determined by shades of blackness?? It used to be that either you were historically disadvantaged or not. I'm not aware of the equity laws referring to any variable shades of blackness/whiteness. Perhaps this reference to "demographics" is a new way for the race-obsessed ANC to sneak in even more refinements to race classification and discrimination, just like the NP did. If this keeps up, the 21st century SA will be indistinguishable from 20th century SA, with mixed race people having to quantify to what extent they are black/white/indian. How absurdly Nazi-like and backwards.

  • JohncarlosBiza - 2012-07-16 11:03

    Employment Equity is a Utopian fantasy that only works in a society with an even distribution of skills and enough jobs for all. In the real world, some races, gender, culture group, (dis)ability type etc have more of certain skills and experience in certain fields than others, and there aren't enough jobs to justify prejudice against people who do not meet a demographic requirement.

      justin.pretorius - 2012-07-17 08:29

      Well said John, it is true in every society around the world

  • lulama - 2012-07-16 11:03

    Lets amend the act by scrapping the whole AA thing. It has been over 17 yrs since freedom. This AA is no longer relevant and has been abused enough.

      vanbredab - 2012-07-16 11:10

      i completely agree here this is just abuse of power

      boltonbarry - 2012-07-16 12:01

      What Lulama said

      oomkrummel.krummel - 2012-07-16 14:16

      O boy...these government ouks have messed the country up soooo much, I think it may be too late to try save things..What a pitty..

      Randomhero6661 - 2012-07-17 13:32

      ah vuyo, how's the wors?

  • ingi.raikes - 2012-07-16 11:08

    ..........but whites will???

  • geraldsebanda - 2012-07-16 11:09

    can we please move forward now and base employment equity on skills demographics and not colour demographics. ie the best person for the job

      Henk - 2012-07-16 11:27

      With the racist ANC???? Not a chance!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-16 12:07

      True empowerment comes from that Gerald, you are right. By giving someone a job based on merit, you empower them to further improve themselves. If someone is given a job based on skin colour, where is the incentive to further improve yourself?

      Final.Punishment - 2012-07-16 12:20

      Rename the ANC to BONC (Black Over-empowered National Congress)

  • kayley.segal - 2012-07-16 11:09

    "should not result" is not the same as "will not result"

  • agueorguiev - 2012-07-16 11:10

    Headline says 'won't affect". Then the article reads " shouldn't affect". M'se difference!! We coloureds want to know the truth already!!

      tasneem.sattar.5 - 2012-07-16 11:42

      truth is you will get shafted...'should not' is not the same as 'will not'

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-16 12:08

      The truth is they don't care about anyone except themselves and those that can fill their pockets even more.

      roth.eugen - 2012-07-16 12:41

      The truth is that you are not black enough...you are in the same boat as the whiteys

      oomkrummel.krummel - 2012-07-16 14:21

      This government plays with coloureds. They don’t understand them, they are seen as just a nuisance, like the whites..same thing..!! Vote DA china..

  • ruben.maistry - 2012-07-16 11:14

    It is evident that our economy is on the decline. One of the ingredients in this decline besides corruption is affirmative action (now called employment equity). Apartheid is 18 years gone and yet the government failed to educate and empower the people as promised.The government is now promoting tokenism. You want a progressine economy? Simple, employ people on merit who in turn will empower their protegee's and over a short space of time the empowered will add value to the country.You do not need a rocket scientist to tell you this.

  • Ze Don - 2012-07-16 11:16

    It seems that soon coloureds and Indians won't be black enough, just like the weren't white enough under the old regime :-( Strange that the Chinese will still qualify though... food for thought!

  • UNITY - 2012-07-16 11:16

    Aint it quite obvious democracy has brought with it racial toloerance, and mixed relations, and a new majority, coloureds. The divided race for the future! Indians affect the zulu kingdom, yet fulfilled the integral role of economic development, when building an economy required resourcefull and evidently intellectual capital utitlised,for the benefit of the economy. This is the beginning of marginalising of monorities in South Africa. Democracy is a hard word to manage. These ideas sounds more like an alliance of the SACP,Cosatu and ANC. A bit of an estranged alliance itself. The peril of society , is one that tries to balance inequalities ,by promoting these kind of amendments, which will lead to a future downturn!

  • fareed.mohammed - 2012-07-16 11:17

    Won't affect or shouldn't affect? It's about time that jobs awarded on skills and not colour.

  • neville.watson.94 - 2012-07-16 11:21

    Not affect our jobs but no jobs for coloureds and indians only blacks

  • neville.watson.94 - 2012-07-16 11:24

    Will never vote anc

      Maemarous - 2012-07-16 12:58

      That won't make even a SLIGHT difference! ANC will still win with or without your vote!

      TSR01 - 2012-07-17 09:56

      Maemarous, is that why the ANC got 15% less votes last general elections? :) I "hate" to break it to you, but the ANC is losing support everywhere: http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Youth-lose-faith-in-Zuma-survey-20120716

  • john.lonsdale.5 - 2012-07-16 11:26

    So what the law is really saying is, if your white you are fair game to be fired for your colour. Who's not racist.

      TSR01 - 2012-07-17 10:01

      I would like to see that taken to the constitutional court - discrimination based on ethnicity. It would be a landslide win, hands-down, because it is unconstitutional and violates a basic human right to dignity, respect, and equality on the grounds of skin colour. 18 years along, and the children who were born in a "new democratic South Africa" are being subjected to the "New Apartheid" run by the ANC, SACP (SA Communist Party!! COMMUNIST!! In a democractic country!?) and COSATU. Down with the ANC!! Down with the SACP!! Down with COSATU!!! Vote for Positive Change! (I choose the DA. Statistics don't lie)

  • Hermann - 2012-07-16 11:29

    Apartheid is dead? Long live job reservation.

  • Jacques - 2012-07-16 11:34

    I'm 20 years old. When I was in grade 4 I remember seeing a demonstration of a circa-1970 advert for a vacancy in an office. This mock ad said \applicants had to be white females\, and the caption in the textbook said something like \Thanks to Nelson Mandela and various other freedom fighters, we will never again see such blatant racial discrimination...\. Turns out \never\ isn't longer than \two decades\.

  • tshiamo.stevens - 2012-07-16 11:35

    ironically, to so-called 'kasi' South Africans foreign coloureds (mixed people)like Bob Marley, Barrack Obama,Jimi Hendrix, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, are accepted as Blacks, but someone from within is not black enough!

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 14:22

      Tshiamo in America, everyone who is regarded as a “non~white” is a “person of colour”. If you really want to break it down, “Coloureds\ and “Blacks” in America are called “African ”Americans” or “Blacks” in the inclusive sense. “Coloureds” is considered a very derogatory term in America. It is a South African apartheid divide and rule concept. That is why people like Trevor Manuel refer to themselves as Black.

      konstabel.koekemoer - 2012-07-16 15:48

      So why did the ANC adopt the Apartheid classifications and not just have white and non-white? All non-whites were discriminated against.

  • john.lonsdale.5 - 2012-07-16 11:40

    Just whites!

      warmonger.everlast - 2012-07-16 11:51

      My thoughts Exactely...

  • arthur.hugh - 2012-07-16 11:53

    If I get a really good permanent tan and change my name to Sipho Mohammed LinXiau, chop off my right leg and marry a Coloured woman who has an Indian father and Black mother - can I also apply for BEE / AA jobs?

  • rikhoula.joy - 2012-07-16 11:56

    I am black and proud of it, but m not so proud when sum blacks priviledges their own counterparts while forgeting that SA is made up of B, C,I,C, and W, what happened to being equall? , lets compete in the interview for the job not with colour plz

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 12:14

      You will horrified to discover how whites generally believe blacks are incompetent. Considering that the previous government created a favourable environment for them to start businesses, they prefer their own. You will go to an interview with a white person, and white people will without a doubt employ another white. It does not matter how qualified or educated you will be compared to your white competitor. That's just how it has been until the government forced all companies that have more than 50 employees to also hire suitably qualified blacks. That is the reason why some white companies will have 50 white employees and set up a different company to employ 50 other whites. This can be repeated ad infinitum, and it's a loophole that is being exploited by white companies that believe blacks are incompetent. So think about it. If you are certain that a white employer who grew up during apartheid will choose you over a white candidate, then you are truly special

      chris.cunning.14 - 2012-07-16 12:26

      @Themba: I can say the very same to "black employees". I've worked on site at 3 "Black" companies with only the receptionist being white at one of them. As well as I've worked at large companies predominately white, who promoted and gave awards to "black staff", who actually out performed everyone. So I think your comment is unfair.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 12:33

      Cunning, the emergence of black companies is what the BEE legislation is intended to facilitate. If you consider the fact that the idea behind the BEE Act is to deracialise the economy, I don't think there is anything wrong with a black company employing a few whites. That is you consider demographics. When a white company promotes competent blacks, it is also doing what the EE legislation requires. I don't understand why you think what I have said is unfair

      chris.cunning.14 - 2012-07-16 12:53

      @Themba: Next argument. Lets consider there are 2 companies. SA company and UK company. Both companies are tendering for an American tender. They both require at least 50 staff. However in SA there is a notable skills shortage. How would you suggest the SA company competes with the UK company? Remember most skilled black staff are already employed. If we just employ more staff we can't compete on cost or quality to attempt to up skill.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-16 14:11

      Lol @ Gerald Some white people can dance lol, i can shake my hips when i want ;)

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 14:16

      Cunning,I don't know how the US will determine who wins the tender. In SA, and assuming a tender has been issued by government, the SA company which does not have the skills must obviously be disqualified from selection for lack of skills. The UK company on the other will be expected to find competent black partners - and black in BEE means African, Coloured and Indians - and go into a joint venture, showing exactly who is going to render which services and how the money is going to be split. The understanding as well as is that some of the money must be left in SA and not all go to an overseas company. I'm not sure whether that addresses your question.

      chris.cunning.14 - 2012-07-16 14:48

      @Themba: I think you misunderstood me totally. I am talking about international business. They don't worry about BEE, that's a South African thing. Fact of the matter is the UK company will get it because of more skills and better priced. You cannot overcharge for a skill. No matter how you structure the SA company, it won't win on cost and quality. We buy Chinese products that are cheap because we know they cheap. I won't pay the same as a quality item. Economies are tightly integrated these days, BEE applies to SA, but when our product is on the shelf in USA, people don't care about BEE. They care about price and quality of the product. It will just create less jobs because businesses will close down.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 15:17

      Cunning, you are right, BEE is a SA thing. That's because it is intended to address a a uniquely SA situation. SA is also very far from competing with the UK, although the latter loves poaching our doctors and nurses :) About a black company being likely to also hire a black competing with a white, I know some black companies that have specifically acknowledged that certain skills were possessed mainly by whites and they proceeded to hire them, for instance in IT, while they also started investing in internships to train young blacks and so that they could widen the skills pool. I get the rest of the points you made

  • raees.khatieb - 2012-07-16 11:57

    Is this not what they call racism? Prejudice based on skin colour...this smells of aparteid! So all the ANC have been fighting for is to reverse the what was done in aparteid?

      geraldsebanda - 2012-07-16 12:04

      and all they have succedded in doing so far is steal from all south africans including their own followers

  • tiaan.laubscher - 2012-07-16 12:09

    I am amazed to see how goverment goes out of its way to put in laws to control the minority. Why are they so scared of the minority? If they wanna move forward with the country then they should stop bringing out the race card and start treating people fairly and equally. I was under the impression thats what they fought for. Clearly I am wrong, since race still plays a major card for the goverment

  • tc.convulvulous - 2012-07-16 12:23

    We know that we cannot trust the ANC. What they say or promise is not what will happen in reality. If they can screw you, they will!

  • cliff.slabbert - 2012-07-16 12:28

    It will only affect whites as usual! No surprises ! What's the ANC game for all to play in the New Democratic South African Rainbow Nation ? It's called White bashing! I wonder who's next after the ANC has chased all the viable whites out of South Africa? Beware fellow South African Indians and Coloureds you are seriously in their firing line. Remember just because they have removed the word BLACK out of the Employment Equity Act ( because as they need your votes for the upcoming elections), It still means the Black Employment Equity Act. As for my fellow black South Africans that are not of the ANC ilk, the same will apply to you. Watch your backs people!

  • wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-16 12:29

    I can't understand why they think that all whites are against them and racist. Apartheid ended nearly 20 years ago! Yes of course there are still white racists, but there are also black, coloured, indian racists. Most white people just want this country to be a success, we already have so much pride in this stunning place, but the government and ANC makes it very difficult. They just divide us, instead of helping South Africans come together and realise we are one of the greatest nations on earth. Achievements don't come easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. We need to stand together, regardless of our differences. We are all different to one another, and THAT is our common similarity. Why must it be about colour? It should be about character. Judge people according to their actions, not their degree of tan.

      cliff.slabbert - 2012-07-16 12:40

      That is their agenda Wesley,the ANC tactics are to divide and rule.

      Rob - 2012-07-16 16:05

      @ THEMBA. " Even if your criticism is valid & fair comment, the mere fact that you are white is enough to condem you in the race card stakes. " Just as I thought !

  • nick.crossley.395 - 2012-07-16 12:34

    The underlying cause of all of our problems in SA is more education. Poor education means more people that need education,jobs etc. Statssa cencus figure show a population growth of 25% in the last 10 years i.e. 10 million people. The population figures of the white indian and coloured groups have remained fairly static. The group that is doing all the demanding has caused the population growth. Get real only have 2 kids!

  • ian.flack2 - 2012-07-16 12:35

    Whilst no-one would effectively lose their jobs now, it may mean that there would very few jobs for the next generation..........especially in the parastatals

  • leon.olivier.92 - 2012-07-16 12:39

    This is just a ploy to win more colored votes. NOTE TO THE ANC the colored people of SA are not as easily fooled as the gullible masses who follow the ANC.

  • carel.hancke.12 - 2012-07-16 12:40

    To : Themba. Thwala.98 How many whites are there in South Africa, that can keep blacks from getting employment? Have you thought about it? Why musy you always work for white concerns? The answer is that most of the blacks do not have the knowledge to start their own businesses. Your leaders should stop wasting their time making plans how to commit corruption and usurp the businesses belonging to whites. Instead, they should rather utilise their time to start up businesses for their people. It's 18 years now that they have received "freedom" and they are still blaming apartheid for their incapability. What have they achieved in the eighteen years? Very little, that creates jobs for their people. They think that if they can "take" the white businesses they will solve the problem. So much for lack of insight. They should rather join hands with the present situation, promote all businesses, black and white, and so build an economy that can really create jobs. At present they are wasting their time making stricter labour laws so as to make life more difficult for present employers.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-07-16 14:17

      People i know employ 2 foreign nationals legally. They work hard and don't steal, because they know that the job is more important than the quick swipe. Both are paid well above minimum wage, ie. R5000p/m Even they tell us that SA blacks (not all) are lazy and just want handouts, and are not willing to work hard. Whereas they work damn hard because they know it will get them somewhere, and they don't want to go back to their countries (Namibia and Zim). Are they racist now as well? No, they just see the difference in work ethic. Of course not all black people from SA are like this, but the ANC bred most to rely on handouts and empty promises.

  • Danie - 2012-07-16 12:47

    Even if the same. Why else is solodarity fighting a court case for coloured solidarity members, against the government?

  • winifred.watson.9 - 2012-07-16 13:28

    This is a big step for them because we all know its a ploy. The cANCer is trying to get a foot in the door in the Western Cape. Did'nt our prodigal son (julius) say the coloured must move to another province. This is exactly whats on their mind. Take away the means of a living from the coloureds therefore they will become the unemployed whilst giving their jobs to the blacks. If you believe what government says, you will believe any crap. The same is going to happen in kwa-zulu natal with the indians. The whites have long been slaughtered by this government now they are turning on the other races, coloureds and indians. What a better way than this equity plan. Fellow south africans, I did warn you about this and now their plan is unfolding, watch you step.

      david.thulani.98 - 2012-07-17 06:26

      These so called,whites are still having more to the economy i hate it ,becouse after 18 years gov still fail to do basic ,for example ,soth afrika still struggling to send books at school, health also in a mess, where billions of tax, this year budget was trillion where is that maney ,instead all these official from gov e.g anc caders,municipality officialy using luxury cars ,house, nice life,workers teaches ,police etc struggling anc is a joke

  • jeremy.forbes.1293 - 2012-07-16 13:45

    All of this is building a collective identity among coloureds in the Western Cape. They have an African History and a tribal history, it just so happens that their tribal forefathers were the first to encounter the European colonist.The Khoi San with no history of waging war against other tribes were easy prey for the European settlers and their human needs. The ANC, wishes to deny this African history and their unguarded statements will certainly help to speed up the secessionist instincts which are already sprouting in the WC.

  • john.cryink - 2012-07-16 14:28

    Hope they reconsider white woman in changes of the equity law to be treated same as white men

  • garth.philpot - 2012-07-16 14:38

    What would be fantastic is if, government spent half as much effort helping black people start their own companies... then they could choose to hire and fire whoever they please. Putting productive people out on the street does not seem like the answer to me.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 15:57

      I thought that's what they were doing. Cyril Ramaphosa' Shanduka, Patrice Motsepe's Rainbow Minerals and others, Dr Mamphele Ramphele's (forgot the name). Vivian Reddi's companies; etc. There is quite a number of Black companies that emerged after 1998. You just do not know them as they are mostly doing business with government. Some are very corrupt though, but there are genuine ones. What also needs to be done is empowerment beyond high profile connected people.

  • alisha.abad.7 - 2012-07-16 15:44

    ".....in some provinces". However, the provinces where they come from as a community WILL be affected. The title is misleading. Is this newspaper now owned by the ANC?

  • sanda.mnyazi - 2012-07-16 15:52

    South African economy is still on the hands of white people, can you imagine what will happen to black professionals if the EE Act and AA were scrapped?!?

      vickers.vermeulen - 2012-07-16 17:32

      Yes. The true professionals would prosper. They would achieve greatness and they would not have that nagging doubt that their success may be because of their skin colour. They will know that it is because of their competency.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-16 17:54

      Vermeulen, I was wondering whether you have been appointed to speak on behalf of any black professional that the fact that legislation has been enacted to ensure that they are no longer mere “drawers of water” ~as Verwoerd said when he introduced all sorts of legislation to cushion whites and keep blacks out of the economy ~ leaves them with a “nagging feeling.” You should have a nagging feeling when every company was lily white except for drivers and tea ladies, which is how things will be if it was not for legislation which deals with Verwoerd's scheme and legacy

      Cassandra Eileen Olivier - 2012-07-16 19:25

      We would not be judge by our gender or the color our of skin but the knowledge we have. And if we qualified for the job then only should we the job or not. Then only will the country truly prosper.

  • Cassandra Eileen Olivier - 2012-07-16 19:16

    Welcome to Zim

  • akesh.singh.94 - 2012-07-16 19:19

    Reading all the comments,one thing is abundantly clear.People will never understand that oppression that took place over many centuries cannot be corrected overnight (1994 till now).Transformation is going to take time because the damage and marginalisation of people of colour is so extensive.Until such time,affirmation of all previously disadvantaged people is necessary so that the playing fields can be well and truely level ,and only then we can move to the utopia of everybody competing on an equal footing. Please see such interventions in its broader context.

      Cassandra Eileen Olivier - 2012-07-16 19:31

      Then why are the ANC using it to there advantage? To cause trouble not peace

      akesh.singh.94 - 2012-07-16 19:42

      Cassandra,this is not about the ANC or Jimmy Manyi .This is about correcting past imbalances.Given that some will have selfish political intentions,we must realise that the majority of our electorate are illiterate (as a result of the past),therefore vote in good faith.The fact that there may be those in the ruling party who are corrupt,insincere etc is not reason enough to dis social/economic transformation

  • hugh.robinson.56 - 2012-07-16 19:34

    If the EE will not affect Coloureds and Indians then This can only mean a direct attack on whites.

  • hugh.robinson.56 - 2012-07-16 19:37

    least I forget the call for whites to bring their skills to the government service by making the gov. service first choice. I know understand that call fire the well trained in corporate then Government service will offer them a job.

  • fishycraig - 2012-09-11 14:31

    No Final.Punishment... Don't encourage them to BONC and make more ANC supporters!

  • Alfred Barker - 2013-04-26 07:08

    I believe that the ANC is pushing this country to its limits with its sactions and equity and all other racial comments. The day for civil war is upon us! Have one million people of any race loose their jobs, which leaves a bunch of kids hungry and starving. Proceed with your sanctions and racial employment equity Act. We'll see who ACTs on what. There is no equity in death only a lifetime of punishment according to your sins, and death will come swiftly, like a thief in the night.

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