Fin24

ANC conference to deliver mining verdict

2012-06-26 09:48

Johannesburg - The ANC is set to decide on the role of the state in the mining industry at its policy conference this week, secretary general Gwede Mantashe said on Tuesday.

"There should be a decision on the role of the state in the mining industry. It's a major issue for discussion," he told SABC radio news.

"Everyone agrees that the mining industry is doing well, but around every mine you see abject poverty and that must change.

"... If we are not changing that we are going to a find a situation of communities becoming more and more impatient and therefore we must address that issue," he said.

The African National Congress policy conference, starting on Tuesday, is a "preparatory conference" for the ANC's national elective conference to be held in Mangaung in December.

 

Comments
  • Ben Nel - 2012-06-26 09:59

    Around every ANC politician we see sickening wealth. This must change.

      burtfred.brown - 2012-06-26 10:14

      And in every ANC constituency we also see abject poverty.

  • phumi.ntlabati - 2012-06-26 10:05

    Gwede must not mislead the masses and business with his facsist neo-liberal tendency. The answer to this debate is there for all to see in the Freedom Charter. The people have long spoken about this issue and those who claim to be chatterists and desciplined forces of the left will tell you our stance. The sooner they prepare business for the wholesale nationalisation of the country's strategic assets there better off everyone will be. They are the ones who are creating this climate of uncertainty over nothing! Just to please their capitalists masters who have co-opted them into their narrow selfish agendas!

      farmfreund - 2012-06-26 10:14

      Ntlabati, how can you let the masses of SA decide on the mining industry if 80% is uneducated,? this can never work you need a leader that works for the better of the nation, and lead the uneducated so their lifes could improve,

      fanie.dutoit2 - 2012-06-26 10:29

      What is going to be better and how are you going to achieve it. How sustainable will it be. Ask all those countries who have been through this.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-26 10:32

      "...facsist neo-liberal tendency." Oh, look, you learnt a new phrase in ANC Lingo 101.

      Ken - 2012-06-26 11:38

      phumi lets make you minister of mining so you can rid the country of capital. With your ideas we and direction we could have all the mines closed down very quickly. We need someone who has a Lose Lose plan.

  • david.lebethe - 2012-06-26 10:16

    Of most concern to some of us is that Mantashe is a chairman of communinist party, whose founding principle is state ownership of the resources but he and SACP are opposed to the idea of state involvement in the economy, including taking over the mines and big businesses such as Iscor, banks, etc. If indeed this ownership of the resources by the state is the tenent of Communism, Mantashe and SACP are renegades of such policy and must just close shop and formally join the Anc.

  • mikenortje - 2012-06-26 10:16

    Please go ahead and land grab, nationalise the mines, etc, etc the quicker we get the next 10 to 20 years over with the better. You cannot reason with someone who got a GG for wood work. Here follow the link below if you want education. http://www.miningweekly.com/article/south-africas-mine-taxing-beats-botswanas-mine-ownership-louw-2011-06-27

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-26 10:25

      I agree. Let them do their worst, let the civil war begin, whatever must happen for heavens sake let's get on with it. When the whole country has collapsed perhaps they will be satisfied, and then we'll start all over and build the country up again whilst they sit around wondering what the hell happened.

  • chris.cunning.14 - 2012-06-26 10:20

    Sure thing guys, "We must nationalize" to give wealth back. We can all see through your lies.

  • sika.ncamane - 2012-06-26 10:20

    so you decided to delete my post when I was telling the truth? I will say it again, i am sick and tired of prople criticising the anc without coming with any alternative. If you don't like the idea of mines being nationalised, come with an an alternaitve or join the anc so that your idea and cririsism can be heard.

      jacques.vermaak.50 - 2012-06-26 10:29

      really??? it has not worked in any country why will it work here? this is just another way anc fat cats will fill teir pockets. these guys dont care about you or the commen man!!! wake up

      fanie.dutoit2 - 2012-06-26 10:33

      Sika, just stop fraud, unnecessary governmental spending, enriching themselves, spending funds effectively and timeously. The mines pays more tax than the income it will produce in an un productive managment as per sosialism and communism. Simple as that.

      Michaele - 2012-06-26 10:34

      With comments like this he is a "SIK"a

      Genet - 2012-06-26 10:46

      Oh for heavens sake, the DA have come up with alternative ways to run this country for ages, so have big business, but the problem is that no one in the ANC listens to anything. The best idea of the whole lot is to put competent people into goverment positions instead of the incompetents they have now.

      sika.ncamane - 2012-06-26 10:46

      @jacques.vermaak.50- you are saying nationalisation did not work in any other country why will it work here? Ok tell tell me Apartheid didn't wok in any other country but it worked here why?

      sika.ncamane - 2012-06-26 10:48

      @fanie.dutoit2 as a South African you can also assist in helping out with the issues that we are currently experiencing blow the whistle if you know about it. Have you ever reported any of the issues that you are talking about here?

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-26 12:17

      Actually, apartheid works everywhere, it just has not been called a name. Germany is ruled by Germans. Italy is ruled by Italians. Mexico is ruled by Mexicans. India is ruled by Indians. There's a big difference between the WRONGDOINGS and INJUSTICES ** DURING ** apartheid, and a system where nations rule over themselves in a sovereign land.

  • Czwe - 2012-06-26 10:21

    If white people are sure of their identity as sons of this soil and citizens of the Republic of South Africa they will support a 51% share of the state in our mining sector, whether or not it is an ANC ran state.

      fanie.dutoit2 - 2012-06-26 10:34

      The tax they currently earn will be more than the value of their 51% share.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-26 10:35

      Why? Platinum prices are falling, mines are closing down, workers are losing their jobs - and you want us to support the government who will spend our taxes on non-profitable ventures?? People don't really think this through do they? You my friend will always be a follower...

      charlesdumbwin.dumbwin - 2012-06-26 10:36

      The problem is though, with all the ANC corruption we see (and all we don't), 51% in the hands of the ANC will just lead to thievery and even more poverty for our people.

      Michaele - 2012-06-26 10:38

      The same as the American "whites" gave 51% of the land to the Indians. Your logic is pathetic. Tell me where a Zulu, Xhosa or the like ever owned this land. Show the title deeds. What have you done to develop infrastructure never mind only maintain it? All you can do is atke, take, take and if there is anything else left steal it.

      appietrader - 2012-06-26 10:50

      You have no idea what you are talking about. African people can't create wealth and industries, that's fact. Working state enterprises and municipalities are all but non functional. Stealing and corruption are rife. Really is that what you want for the rest of the economy. looks like the whites have failed educating you lot!

      Czwe - 2012-06-26 11:24

      I personally reject a wholesale nationalisation but i am confident we are going to adopt the Botswana-Zimbabwe system in our natural resources and we are not going to be apologitic about this. Natural resources of this land belongs to the people of this land. White people must come to terms with the fact that they 'cannot' have all the arable land to themselves and you must stop raising the food security excuse. If you think black people cannot farm how did they survive for centuries before westerns came to invade our land. If you think we cannot farm and you are worried about food security, go to Australia, Spain and UK i am sure there's plenty of food there for you and they'll welcome you.

  • phumi.ntlabati - 2012-06-26 10:51

    There won't be any holy cows in this conference. The delegates we sent there have one clear mandate: 1. Reject the 2nd Transition paper 2. Push forward with the nationalisation of state strategic assets, mines, banks and other monopoly industries. 3. Remove section 25 of the private property clause to make way for expropriation without compensation. 4. Free education for all and a speedy roll-out of NHI. 5. Make broadband accessable and affordable for all! This mandate is clear and we are not going there to discuss them. That has been done in our branches but to rubber stamp them!

      Ken - 2012-06-26 11:22

      Correction 2. Yes nationalise Standard Bank the Chinese will love you for Stealing their 20%. The Indians will love you for stealing Iscor etc. 3. Condone theft. 4. Higher taxes less jobs 5. Government controls Telkom that's why nothing is happening apart from losing billions to the Nigerians. Branches are made up of the lowest form of intelligence.

      appietrader - 2012-06-26 11:38

      One question to you rocket scientists....Who are going to run these companies, the present management, dream on. The ANC youth league......good luck. The government will have to sell these assets at fire sale prices very soon and you all will be, if not already the laughing stock of the world. Go ahead then the investors losing money now can profit from this nationalization. Don't think you clever guys can't just TAKE these assets without payment, this country will have sanctions from the world that you lot will starve or eat the minerals you.... haha.... mine? GO FOR IT!!!

      johan.maree.5036 - 2012-06-26 11:58

      Please remember your comment and look at it in 6 months... You can do 1. , 4. is already there, 5. we are all hoping for, need a few Billion for that unfortunately. 2. We don't have the money and look at the state of other gov run businesses and last but not least 3. The right to private property is one of the most important rights a human has, will never go away because you feel like it. People will die protecting that one...

  • nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-26 10:52

    It boggles the mind that people want to follow policies that have proven to be a dismal failure. Is it stupidity? Is it the allure of wealth that makes people so blind that they walk into the same hole that others have before them? What is it? If you see something hasn’t worked, then why follow and do the same stupid thing? Are we not supposed to be an intelligent form of life, one that can learn from the mistakes of others? State intervention/ownership has been done before – IT DOESN’T WORK!!!!!! The politicians will get richer and the poverty stricken will remain unchanged. To follow a model that has a proven track record of failure is just beyond comprehension.

  • sean.murphy.165 - 2012-06-26 11:03

    It is not the job of the mines to provide for everyone in a community. They only pay the people who work for them. We do not have poverty because existing business is doing too little. We have poverty because we have too little business and this is government fault. With their Union partners and reckless talk of Nationalisation they have stiffled business growth and increased unemployment. Put the blame where it is due.

  • Rational100 - 2012-06-26 11:26

    Let's get one thing clear here....there is a difference between a Mine and Minerals! A mine can be owned by anyone as an entity but minerals must belong to all citizens. If the citizens give someone a right to mine then the citizens must share on the minerals whilst the mine owners get the dividends out of running the mine. The role of government must be to ensure that there is an equitable developmental distribution of the minerals and NOT to necessarily nationalise the mining companies. That way, those with expertise can mine responsibly.

      Ken - 2012-06-26 11:33

      The share that the people receives are the multiple taxes the mining companies pay. So you are proposing that we scrap taxes and hand over the equivalent amount to the community in the surrounding areas?

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-26 11:42

      And who will these 'citizens' be? Let's remember what country we're talking about here, and the track record of the ruling party and their militant following.

      Rational100 - 2012-06-26 12:17

      @ken and big chief. First and foremost taxes are predomnantly paid on profits and profits are whatever u want them to be. Ask any accountant and they will tell u that profit is only an opinion! There is a growing tendency cream the country out of white collar crime by declaring lower profits hence the need for Govt to intervene. Granted, Govt is also not so efficient but at least we are able to shout and lobby for transparency in their dealings failing which we can vote them out. The citizens are all who belong to SA (regardless of colour or creed) and therefore we must all share as per Madiba's vision....

      Ken - 2012-06-26 12:39

      @Rational100 The books of a listed company are subject to very stringent audits. Companies strive to increase profits and increase shareholders wealth. You are suggesting that companies are hiding profits off the books. No board of directors would condone such criminal activity as this who led to jail sentences. We are not talking about the local cafe owner. The Government has never suggested that the mines are under declaring profits, they simply want more. When Government takes from profit, net profit reduces as do shareholder returns. Cost of capital increases.

      Ken - 2012-06-26 12:58

      @Rational100 Thought I'd look at figures for last year. The following is cut and paste. According to the chamber's own financial figures, total mining corporate tax amounted to R25.8-billion last year. In addition, the mining sector paid just under R6-billion to the National Treasury in royalties. The chamber said dividends declared to shareholders amounted to only R12.7-billion, or 2,6%, of the industry's expenditure. I don't own mining shares myself but if I did I must pay tax on any dividends I receive. If I sell and make a profit I either get hit with income tax (up to 40%) on the amount or have to pay capital gains tax. Mines also buy stuff and pay Vat.

      Rational100 - 2012-06-26 16:06

      @ken... The last time I heard the words "very stringent Audits" was just before Lehman brothers went bust in the US amongst others. They also had a Board and they were audited by one of the big 5 then.... Believe what u want but conclusion remains that 90% of the time profit is an opinion AND NOT A SCIENTIFIC fact!

  • nigel.vanysendyk - 2012-06-26 12:07

    sorry but 2 mines closed this week, doesn't the ANC read the news?

  • brian.stolzenberg.9 - 2012-06-27 07:10

    South Africa’s problem in one word: Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers

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