ANC: We don't oppose nationalisation

2011-08-05 22:05

Johannesburg - The ANC has no policy on nationalisation of the mines, spokesperson Keith Khoza said on Friday.

"The ANC has no policy on nationalisation. The NGC has called for investigation to be conducted in preparation for the policy conference next year. It is the policy conference that will pronounce on the matter, until then there is no policy position on the matter," Khosa said.

"It is misleading to say the ANC has agreed to nationalisation of the mines... it is not a foregone conclusion that there will be nationalisation but we are not opposed to nationalisation.

"We are saying it must be looked at as an option and if it is looked at as an option, we must see what is the best practice."

He said the terms of reference of the task team was clear, to look at applicability and best practice.

Khosa was responding to questions over comments made by Cosatu economist Chris Malekane at a debate on the contentious economic policy on Thursday.


Malekane said the task team established by the ANC to examine nationalisation was not looking at the feasibility of the policy, but was exploring the most appropriate model to implement.

"If you say business needs certainty to make investments... this is the certainty you need to have, that what is being discussed now is models," Malekane said.

Last year, the ANC's national general council (NGC) directed its national executive committee to form a task team to explore the viability of nationalisation and the state playing a greater role in key sectors of the economy.

Khoza said people should not speak on behalf of the ANC.

The NGC resolution on the ANC's website reads: "The NGC reaffirms the ANC's approach that the transformation of the South African economy should always be holistic and comprehensive, covering all sectors of the economy. In this regard, the ANC should ensure greater state involvement and control of strategic sectors of the economy,

"There was greater consensus in the commission on the nationalisation of mines and other strategic sectors of the economy. The NGC therefore mandated the NEC to ensure further work be done, including research, study tours and discussions, and to report to the policy conference for decision at (the) national conference in 2012."

  • Lembede - 2011-08-05 22:35

    Pamodzi Gold an Aurora Mining are just two examples of ANC-led govt ill-preparedness to take control of the mining sector. Pamodzi Gold an Aurora Mining are just two examples of ANC-led govt ill-preparedness to take control of the mining sector.

  • ian - 2011-08-05 22:42


  • Bill - 2011-08-05 22:42

    The ANCYL and ANC coalition is soooo predictable! Malema shouts it initially…and then judging by the populous reaction, the ANC suddenly bring it to attention as to a possibility, thereby further testing the water for reaction and then they go ahead and do it. A bunch of clowns, which are as predictable as the days of the week!

  • Lestor - 2011-08-05 22:42

    Sit on the fence any harder and the post they are sitting on might disappear into a very uncomfortable place

  • clark - 2011-08-05 22:43

    - There you have it folks. Give them their banana republic they want so badly. I'm outta this place.

  • lassie95 - 2011-08-05 22:44

    At last proof that Malema calls the shots in the ANC.

  • Investor - 2011-08-05 22:49

    The most efficient way for government to share in the wealth of mining is via taxation. This is the proven best practice international model, and dont let Malema and Toyko tell you any different. If government wants a bigger slice, all they need to do is increase taxes slightly i.e. mining super tax. The power brokers dont want this of course because the benefits will go to the state and the poor and not into their pockets!

  • Gallows - 2011-08-05 22:55

    They are testing the water.

  • Jamesons - 2011-08-05 22:56

    too late, foreign investment has walked away from south Africa. And thanks to ......

      mobiles - 2011-08-06 01:17

      Fatboy who makes a donkey look highly intelligent !!

  • Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-05 23:01

    But no one has any input into the matter - the countries to be studied are chosen, without the private sector contributing anything. Look at Tanzania. They nationalized everything. Their income per person today is $609 per year. That is R4189 per year per person. South Africa's income is $10,492, that is R72184 per person per year. The average South African earns 17 times more than the average Tanzanian citizen that nationalized his entire economy. That is despite South Africa having international sanctions imposed by 100+ countries over a period of 30 years and despite the existence of apartheid. Let me repeat that: the average South African earns 17 times MORE than the average Tanzanian! Clearly nationalization has not helped that country, because the investors have not returned. The nationalization economic model has been a failure.

  • Proudly SA - 2011-08-05 23:01

    Malema must be immediately arrested and charged with serial corruption. Every day he is stealing money that should be spent on pensioners and children; it is appalling that the country is spending so much energy on this idiot who has caused so much harm to country and so much offence to many respectful people. It is an absolute disgrace that the Government and Zuma have not stopped his madness

  • A.N. Other - 2011-08-05 23:02

    " but was exploring the most appropriate model to implement." Would this not indicate that it has already been Discussed, and will be implemented?

  • First48 - 2011-08-05 23:03

    Can I ask a question please? Those South Africans still living in South Africa, are you guys getting nervous yet? This is a very worrying turn of events which I'm afraid looks like a foregone conclusion.

  • First48 - 2011-08-05 23:05

    Can I ask a question please? Those South Africans still living in South Africa, are you guys getting nervous yet? This is a very worrying turn of events which I'm afraid looks like a foregone conclusion.

  • Vivisector - 2011-08-05 23:07

    a good example of what is to come.. Strip and sell... and with strip I do not mean Ju ju doing a pole dance in Teasers..

  • First48 - 2011-08-05 23:10

    Can I ask a question please? Those South Africans still living in South Africa, are you guys getting nervous yet? This is a very worrying turn of events which I'm afraid looks like a foregone conclusion.

      clark - 2011-08-06 00:33

      - Ive been nervous ever since Zuma , up for rape and corruption charges was elected as president. The writing was on the wall already then and Malema has put the final nail in the coffin.

      Bokkie 36 - 2011-08-06 07:21

      We are nervous as hell, but some of us just cannot get away, not enough capital, or qualifications not sought by other countries, in short, we are STUCK!

      Ozymandios - 2011-08-06 08:03

      Not getting worried just sharpening our Claymores!

  • First48 - 2011-08-05 23:12

    Why are you deleting my comment?

  • Mad Dog - 2011-08-05 23:22

    "The ANC has no policy on nationalization." What an statement! A Government of a nation says "we have no policy!" The anc must go! To have no policy on a central subject is just no on! Get rid of them! Vote DA!

  • Steve Wonderboy - 2011-08-05 23:29

    Was wondering why the youth league weren't taken to task yet, now it is clear. This is just one massive good cop, bad cop routine. They are trying their cheap psychology tricks to con the people into making concessions. Let the youth league make it look like there's gonna be Mugabe style repossessions, then you calm the people and force milder yet still unnecessary takeovers. Just keep blowing smoke in the peoples eyes so they don't know what's coming.

  • MarkL - 2011-08-05 23:35

    You have to be an idiot to not see what's coming. The masses are demanding something from the ANC and as they slowly run out of scraps to feed the poor the angrier the poor are getting. As soon as the threshold line of one mine or one farm has been crossed the cascade of events will be unstoppable. The poor (military trained youth) will overrun that what they were lead to believe were "right fully" theirs. In the months and years following that event, food will probably be provided by the Red-Cross and (some) NGO's allowed to enter this new pariah state. The circle will then be complete. NP V.W. Low wrote a poem about this if I recall correctly.

  • Zakhele - 2011-08-05 23:38

    You nationalise the mines I am off to America or Europe to live with the bloody imperialists agents. I will even consider faking my accent just so that I sound like I grew up in the US. You've squandered the good f*cking 17 years doing mass corruption now you want to screw the economy. What do people who work for the government know about running profitable business? Come on guys. Jokes aside! Why don't you start your own mine, run it effieciently, show the world you need more mines and finance. Don't you think inevstors will invest in any well run government entity? You simply just cannot afford to nationalise the mines. Those calling for the nationalisation of the mines are bunch of idiots who like sitting on their bum and feeding off other people's sweat. Get off your ass and work people. Stop talking the nationalisation of mines nonsense now. You nationalise the mines I will personallyy hand over my ANC membership card to the receptionist at the Luthuli house. I would like to believe that all educated ANC members will follwo suite! Nobody will sell our country to the Chinese! Not Malema, not Bridgete Radebe, not Motsepe, not Mathew Phosa, not Tokyo, not Vavi.... We (black people) have been watching you screw up. Not anymore. Enough is enough! News24, please publish this, please!

      clark - 2011-08-06 00:18

      - Spot on Zakhele - Seems the Anc want a banana republic really badly.

      Gpurs - 2011-08-06 00:24

      A lightbulb just lit up above an ANC member's head. Hallelujah!! Zakhele, good on you my friend! Now go and spread the word, enlighten the mindless minions.

      baasdingane - 2011-08-06 01:16

      Well said Zakhele. You are wise, pity you dont have a seat in parliament.

      Atholl - 2011-08-06 02:18

      Zakhele, unfortunately the Constitution and the Bill of Rights does not allow for the seizure of mines and of land. That's why we have a Con Court. This philosophy used here is : Create a {problem} aids! shoot boers! scrap scorpions! Plant Chief Justice! Delay farm ownership, stumble service delivery, Insult de Klerk, insult Tutu! chaos, less jobs, more poor .... and publicize the Chaos so that ....from the {problem}... ...there is a {reaction} .. fetch yr passport, scream and shout ... blah blah.. and ... from the {reaction} ... ... you provide the {solution} - seize mines, seize land ... rewrite (now useless) constitution to suit the problem that you yourself created. ------- that's the issue ---- not the mines --- not the banks ---- not the dispensing of aids drugs by govt ----- --- it's the Constitution that's a problem ----- not the mines --- Here's an example :: Can you imagine a situation in a 'democratic' country where the govt controls aids drugs in overcrowded hospitals ... queues three deep ... Imagine at election time, Zakhele, if you don't vote for me 'democratically' I won't give the drugs to save yr life (bill of rights).. & you say 'but you caused the problem - you said no aids !' ... who you gonna vote for Zakhele? .. 'till Jesus comes' ? In Zim the're still rewriting the Constitution ---- this is not a poor/needs issue --- it's an insult to the persons who compiled the constitution ....Mandela signed it into law.

      Atholl - 2011-08-06 02:30

      Playing a game with the Constitution is a dangerous game. The persons who compiled the SA Constitution all had three characteristics in common ... --- trust --- credibility ---- respect --- Those characteristics will never be achieved by any person in SA again. Or to put it differently .... does any person, other than the ones who DID compile the Constitution, have either the trust or the credibility or the respect to re-write the Constitution?

      Captainmorgan - 2011-08-06 05:31

      SA needs millions more just like you my friend

      ariete - 2011-08-06 05:45

      The government has run mines - their diamond mine in Northern Cape went bankrupt!

      Ozymandios - 2011-08-06 07:59

      Athol the Constitution is not worth the paper it is written on. The ANC have already indicated very cunningly that they are above this document. They will just destroy and ignore it and how will you them get them to comply with it? You are fooling yourself to think they will live by it. TIA This is Africa. It was agreed to by the ANC because they wanted power and needed the world to think they were democratic. But nowhere in Africa is democracy accepted by the 98% of black people especciiallt the leaders. Its does not suit them to share. They want us to share our wealth but they never share. Its not part of African culture to do that. This country is bankrupt and they need more money - they can't bleed us whites (via taxes) totally dry. WE now have toll roads to raise capital for them and many other sleights of hand we no longer recognise as scams to get more money for their coffers. The problem with this country is that they see money being made and just think 'we'll take that over and also make money from it - can't let the whites control it." But they do not realise what goes into that entity to make money in the first place. Aurora mines is a perfect example. The same with farms. They take it over and immediately think they must all have a higher salary. They have no idea what time it takes to start a business and make it work to become a successful profitable concern. Its not Nationalisation I fear its the total inabilty the people possess who are taking over. Malema?

  • Thandiwe83 - 2011-08-05 23:43

    Oh dear!

  • Mad Dog - 2011-08-05 23:48

    The anc has no policy on nationalization! What a thing to say! The government has no policy!!?? Vote DA in the next election! Get a life! Get a policy!

      Pickle - 2011-08-06 01:36

      By the time of the next elections.. it will be too late. Let's faec it.. we are screwed...

  • Left Screwed - 2011-08-05 23:53

    They lie, in one sentence they say "It's not a foregone conclusion" and then they say "what is being discussed now is models". If nationalising is not in their plans why discuss it until "there was greater consensus in the commission on nationalisation of mines and other strategic sectors of the economy". It will be like the discussion on street name change,one minute we talking next minute every street in Durban had a new name,from ANC founder to the tea girl and every other communist leader and all this while we still discussing name charge. What was the point. So if you ask me if I trust them, the answer is NO!!!!!

      Captainmorgan - 2011-08-06 05:28

      Seems like they (ANC,ANCYL & COSATU) are not sure whether to scratch their watches or wind their arses

  • hookah - 2011-08-06 00:01

    let me go find my passport

  • StBad - 2011-08-06 00:01

    That's it, I'm out...

  • Ralph Long - 2011-08-06 00:05

    Oh, this is going to do wonders for foreign investment in SA.

      clark - 2011-08-06 00:26

      - Go right ahead Anc - Our taxes , capital and expertise will all be leaving soon. We will observe your folly and regression from distant shores , shaking our heads in disbelief at your stupidity.

      daaidoos - 2011-08-06 02:32

      And what the idiots don't realize is that's where jobs comes from. They think that if they nationalise all of a sudden everybody will be somehow miraculously have good jobs and become wealthy.

      Walter - 2011-08-06 06:16

      Their mentality and logic will tell them it will create 5 million jobs............... for a few days and then there will be mass unemployment and no-one left to pay the taxes!

  • clark - 2011-08-06 00:38

    - Why do News24 keep on removing my comments ?

  • andre - 2011-08-06 01:14

    I wonder what ANC Executive Committee members like Sexwale and Motsepe have to say about the fact that their assets/shares will be nationalised by their own comrades ??? Ha, Ha what a joke. - 2011-08-06 07:24

      Unless this is what they are actually wanting. Are there mines profitable. Or is this actually more or a Cadre bailout than anything else....

      Gungets Tuft - 2011-08-06 08:15

      They are thrilled that the government might take them. They have already privatised those profits, now to socialise the losses is perfect for them. Low yields, low margins, acid water and other environmental issues - they are absolutely overjoyed that they will be handed over to the people.

  • andre - 2011-08-06 01:16

    zuma as always keeps quiet and is not fulfilling his most basic duties, wonder what he is being paid for ?

      Ho - 2011-08-06 11:54

      One wonders whether Zooma the stumblebum is not in a lunatic asylum brought out to read from a script when necessary...such is the lunacy of the ANC............

  • Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 01:44

    This nationalization model is simply an inefficient way of running a country. #1 your scaring your foreign investors away #2 you are damaging your credit rating which takes nearly 100 years to build up - think Fitch, Moody's, Standard and Poors, they downgraded Venezuela because what businessman / stock market investor will invest in a country where he / she loses half of their wealth they have invested in companies. The ANC will scare away investors from the ENTIRE WORLD. THAT ALONE must be reason enough to neglect ANY gains from nationalization. Credit ratings will be lost. Higher international borrowing costs. Foreign investors dumping shares that will cause a flight of capital - the Rand ending up something like R20 for $1. That's realistic. That is what is going to happen if they nationalize. Even if they decide to grab just 20% - the headlines would lead to a massive outflow of money. Their only realistic option is the sovereign wealth fund and perhaps demanding that mining companies pay say 3% of their profit into the sovereign wealth fund. That is the only realistic option on the table that won't scare away foreign investors and that makes financial sense.

      daaidoos - 2011-08-06 02:26

      @Nasdaq I agree with you. And besides the flight of job creating investments opportunities you could be pretty sure that the mines would be run into the ground just like every other state enterprise under the control of the ANC. Also consider this, private investors has to put up all the capital but government want's to collect on their +- 40%share of the profits. What incentives will the be for investors to develop the mining sector further if they can't make a profit and if they are dictated by the state on how to run their businesses. What if the mines makes a loss, will the government lose as well? Putting business under state control has always been a disaster. There is absolutely NOTHING to be gained by nationalization, and in fact it will destroy the mining sector which is one of the most important sectors in SA

      dave_23 - 2011-08-06 05:48

      Nationalisation is a euphemism for "looting". They don't do it because they think it will 'help the poor', that's the lie, they do it for one reason only, to send business to their already-extremely-rich friends who stand to be personally enriched when handed mines on a platter. They don't care that it will destroy jobs and hurt the poor because they are kleptocrats - the lowest of the low amongst thieves.

      frans.visserdsb - 2011-08-06 07:39

      I am not too worried about the strength of the rand - I am worried about the investors losing money they have invested. the major shareholders in the mines are foreigners and pension funds... so we lose our pensions...

      p123 - 2011-08-06 09:30

      3%, everyone seems to forget that every Company pays 28% of their profits to the state, that Malema and Co are busy stealing. Malema and Co want that to be 100% so that can collect Billions of Dollars. What they forget is that when they destroy the Companies through looting them and mismanagement there won't be any profits, just huge losses. For God's sake this is ridiculous, I feel like I am trying to explain to a 2 year old child that if he puts his fingers in the fire they will get burnt!!! Why are the majority of Africans so ignorant? They keep repeating the same mistakes, definition of insanity!!! Nationilisation has failed at least 50 times around the world!!

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-07 20:37

      I prefer that they print the Rand into oblivion. I'm surprised COSATU hasn't discovered the printing press, because that strategy of devaluing the currency trying to uplift the poor MIGHT just work. But nationalization. NEVER EVER. I urge them to print R1000bn before they nationalize a single mine. That is how serious this is. At least we get something of value - R1000bn that we can spend on the poor. Nationalization is the total destruction of value. The mine shaft tunnels collapse if the pillars aren't maintained and then mining becomes nearly impossible as drillers cannot bore holes into the collapsed shafts. The entire mine is lost. That is what happened all over the world to nationalized mines - they fall into disrepair and disappear - too dangerous to open again.

  • sainnz - 2011-08-06 02:16

    Excuse my ignorance (and this is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer): does nationalising the mines mean the government will then run the mines? Does this mean they will be responsible for who gets the rights to mine those mines? If this is the case, the Chinese must be drooling at the prospect and getting their bribes ready. Talk about going full circle - do these people not realise that once again they will be giving away valuable commodities? Do they not realise that if millions of Rands in bribes are paid, then what is the deal worth in profit to the payee? Cry, the beloved country.

      Malema fan - 2011-08-06 05:51

      Nationalization can be run via various models/programs it depends which concept will be approved during the inception and feasibility studies but my opinion will be to set up a pilot project which can have various forms from buying a closed down mine or to start from “Greenfield” the portion of the that will be of very much interest to me is which methodology they will chose during the study phase because normal practice give a basket of options during inception/pre-feasibility studies that in my opinion is where all must join in to ensure we keep this process on the right path.

      Hux - 2011-08-06 07:16

      The quesion is....What is the objective? Very simple. Self enrichment by the ANC top dogs and turds. Nothing else. Proof is the rest of Africa.

      Babba x - 2011-08-06 07:36

      It means black people take whatever has already been established by whites, and working. They then continue to muck it up completely until they target something new to destroy. They are uncapable of starting up a mine by themselves. They took established farms and mucked it up. They mucked up and established and profitable mine, Eurora. They needed the white people to build the Gautrain. They needed the white people to establish the tolling system. They need BEE to take jobs. Say no more

      frans.visserdsb - 2011-08-06 07:37

      @malemafan - please explain to me the model where nationalisation creates jobs? the mines allready have their full quota of workers to run the mines at full efficiency. The one model you propose - the government starting up a mine - has been tried - Alexkor is bankrupt!!! The other way has been very successful - Genkor was the state mining company - it was privatised and is now as part of BHP-Billiton the biggest mining house in the world!. SA had 70% less direct foreign investment last year than the previous year - as a direct result of the threat of nationalisatiion. That has probably cost us 100 000 jobs...

  • Malema fan - 2011-08-06 04:05

    I don’t think nationalizing the current mining organizations will be a good idée (for many reasons) but what prevent the government to start up a new mining group under the umbrella of nationalization and run a pilot project that will compete with the private sectors mining groups and then compare apples with apples – what I do oppose of is that most of the economist keep hammering that a strong currency is to our benefit – that I don’t agree with because I work in many countries all over the world and can assure you that having a bit of a weaker currency is not all that bad. I have seen nothing in South Africa that shows me the benefits that a strong currency is helping SA unless you really believe in this artificial inflation targeting.

      Walter - 2011-08-06 06:11

      This is an idea worth thinking about. Although I'm no fan of your hero, this is perhaps a good way to "test the water." However, I doubt whether you are going to have many takers setting up an organisation to run a mine together with the private sector as a "real investment."

      Babba x - 2011-08-06 07:30

      Uhmmmm. What happened to Eurora?

      Gungets Tuft - 2011-08-06 08:12

      Mate - those are sensible comments, especially about a valid comparison of results. About the Exchange Rate - it will be what it will be. Look at Japan and what happened when they constantly stepped in to manipulate their exchange rate. Your exchange rate is a reflection of your GDP growth, the GDP growth being what dictates your interest rate (onless you are a moneterist of course). If yuo start messing with internal rates to "fix" exchange rates then you are playing hopscotch in the minefield. The Yanks get away with it because they own the game, but look what deficits have done to them, and the worst is still to come. @Digger - this has nothting to do with "black people" not being aboe to run things - that is nonsense, of course they can - it has to do with GOVERNMENT being ill-equiped to do so. It has never worked, not in China, not in the USSR, not in Cuba (even Fidel's boet is now letting private enterprise run things) - governments job is to provide a climate for business. No more, no less.

      Dave Robbins - 2011-08-06 08:49

      What prevents the government from starting up a new mining group is that they will have to use taxpayers money! And is there enough of that considering the current state of the economy? Re a weaker currency: don't forget that in the last 5 years SA has become a nett importer of food, so a weaker Rand will lead to higher food prices, which mainly affects the poorest of the poor. The local farmers, already under threat due to multiple circumstances, will not be able to produce more in the short term (In 20 years the number of farmers has gone from 120,000 to 36,500, while the population of SA has swelled from 42 million to 50 million). To put it in a nutshell - don't rock the boat or we will all be tipped out and drowned.

      p123 - 2011-08-06 09:20

      SAA, Eskom, Transnet all failures requiring Billion Rand bailouts every year with Eskom almost bringing the country to it's knees - proof that the state can not run a business. Why is this even being debated? One reason, Malema and Co want to be brain dead not to see this! Hello, look at the cars he drives, R16m house. Give him the mines to run and he will,like dozens of African leaders(contradiction!)have billions of Dollar ironically probably held in European banks. Please wake up before it is too late for God's sake!!!

      Bee and Jay - 2011-08-06 10:29

      Cast your mind back to 2002. The rand is 17 to the British pound. Inflation goes through the ceiling. We all become very much poorer becaause of the weak rand. We import far too much to devalue the rand, which would only be good for a handful of exporters. Think what would happen if the rand was devalued by 20% and the price of petrol has to increase by R2.00 per litre. Ask yourself why countries like Germany start panicing if their currency weakens. We need a more productive workforce that can compete with others before we tinker with devaluation or nationalisation

      Phil - 2011-08-06 12:06

      Fair call, but they have already done it. very few governments are capable of succefully managing nationlised industry, this one for sure isn't. I think you will find there is general agreement that the Rand is too strong. Once the global economy recovers, and Gold is no longer a safe haven, that will quickly change, and the problem will be that it is too weak. SA's biggest issue is that its' labour force is uncompetitive in the global economy, and that wont be fixed any day soon.

      O'forth - 2011-08-06 13:55

      What has stopped the government from doing what you said is shear lack of ability. The SACP and Cosatu has got as much respect for the people of this country as a capitalist for a Bergie. They are purely in it for the business of having jobs at the expence of who ever else. The stupid out dated ideology of the NDR they still insist is the " desired outcome" is based on a long defunct cold war Stalinist global destabaliztion programe dating as far back as the late 1920's. The world, we will all agree has moved on some what since then. The Alliance is thus based on an redundent philosophy. Every other system they attempted to put in place under this umbrela ideology has been a failure too. This is because of the class of personality this ideology draws to it, anarchists, intellectual deviants and corrupted fortune seekers. The NDR is and was a rallying call to an exess of violence pillage and distruction of any order standing in its way. It was ment as a distructive force and not as a creative force. Hence the consequense of its outcome. And so it will remain. Only the faces will change. Until this grouping is exposed for the fiddler without clothes they really are, and replaced by pariotic citizens of consiousness nothing, and I mean NOTHING will progress in this country. The NDR is founded on the consept of "A Colonialism of a Special Type" that needed to be over thrown. I say RUBBISH to that. What we had was a "Socialism of a racist Type", but socialist none the less.

  • Digger - 2011-08-06 05:54

    Aah yes, let’s go back to the beginning. Why was apartheid brought in again? Oh yes, because some in the government and general public believed that black people would take over the country and destroy it. Some of these racist individuals also believed that black people are not capable of making the right decisions and ruling any government efficiently and fairly. They also believed that anything they touch they will destroy and that they act like animals and thus are sub human. Well the country is now in the majority black people’s hands, what are you going to do now? Prove those racist’s wrong….or god forbid were they right all along? The whole world is waiting with baited breath for that answer!!

      realist - 2011-08-06 07:35

      I'm afraid the whites were proved right. Apartheid was and is a necessity in south africa because of the facts you mentioned. There should not even be a debate.

      Mike@CapeT - 2011-08-06 07:40

      The ANC speak with a forked tongue!

      realist - 2011-08-06 07:57

      The liberals scoffed (and some are still scoffing) at the swart gevaar theory. Now we can all see that that was a very accurate assumption which has become a very real threat (white murders and rape, nationalisation, etc.

      Mike@CapeT - 2011-08-06 08:10

      ANC talk with a forked tongue!

      Pupuzela - 2011-08-06 10:03

      I posted the comment below yesterday, in response to another article. I feel it prudent to repeat it, as it is relevant to your statement: Initially there were no sinister intentions behind the policy of separate development and self-governance (which was also known as Apartheid). It was a way to preserve a certain way of life, western norms, standards and the order of a civilized society in a tumultuous continent. The declaration of the armed struggle by the ANC in the ’60 changed the above approach, and for self-preservation reasons, it all went pear-shaped. Fire was fought with fire. Throw in the cold war fears of a possible communist take over, and you will see why the initial idea got diluted. The attack on the system of Apartheid (or so-called struggle) always, in reality, had the fight for absolute political power, and the spoils of the victorious, as a sub-text. It was never ever really about freedom for the masses, or an equal society. If you read the news today regarding corruption and general chaotic lawlessness, my statement makes sense, doesn't it? In actual fact, as you stated, we had been forewarned, to the letter, about all the things that we experience today in SA, but it was deemed to be Apartheid Government propaganda. I want to put it today to all the liberals: Even if Apartheid never existed, we would have been where we are in SA today, in any case, albeit with maybe less infrastructure.

  • Boerseun - 2011-08-06 06:57

    If it is even being discussed, it is enough reason to know that the ANC has completely lost it's marbles.

  • Fakmore - 2011-08-06 06:58

    Why nationalise mines when blacks only make up 12% of senior management in South Africa...get that 12% to speak against nationalisation...they are the nest assets against nationalisation..and they speak good English.

  • Trueblue - 2011-08-06 07:17

    There are many forms of nationalisation. What Malema seems to be touting is racial nationalisation, i.e. replacing whites with blacks, as he never refers to whites as South African, but by other names, such as the enemy, or the imperialists. Another form of nationalisation is the state owning everything a la Marxist-Leninism. In the latter scenario, supported by the SACP and COSATU, whose ideological underpinnings are based one this unworkable and tainted system, there would not be any use for unions, as the workers will own all means of production which means that they cannot go on strike for whatever reason because they will be striking against themselves. If the state, i.e. the workers, owns all means of production then a strike against the state will be seen as treason against the state, and the armed forces, including the police, will have to step in and arrest agitators, which will mean that those calling the strike will have to be arrested and tried. Conclusion: Calls for nationalisation are not about the workers at all, but about entrenching already rich office bearers in position of power without the consent of the majority.They are only interested in protecting what they have, and gaining more. The workers are the last thought on their minds.Next, let's hold a conference on the best open opportunity societal model to follow that also includes social responsibility and best practice. I forgot! The DA has done this already!A party for thinking South Africans!

      fester - 2011-08-06 09:39

      a great informative point. you should be in politics!

      Phil - 2011-08-06 12:01

      Not sure that holds true. I actually think Vavi and the SACP actually want the best for the people of this country and have been very outspoken about corruption and the likes. They are just sadly misguided about the actual outcomes of their proposed policies.

      LBS - 2011-08-06 12:39

      @ Trueblue - Thank you, I think you made it very clear to understand. You should be in politics as Fester said. @Phil, don't be misled by the SACP and Vavi, they have their own agenda!

      LBS - 2011-08-06 12:56

      @ Trueblue : Thanks, you made it very clear. You SHOULD be in Politics. @ Phil : Don't be misled by SACP and Vavi - they have an agenda of their own!

      LBS - 2011-08-06 13:05

      I'm sure somebody doesn't like me, my posts disappear! I wonder... is it Zebbie?? @Trueblue : Thanks, I now see clearly what you explained, you SHOULD become a Politician. @Phil : Don't be misled by SACP or Vavi, they have their own Agenda! (Now let's see...... third time lucky?)

  • Patrick - 2011-08-06 07:33


      Gorilla - 2011-08-06 08:41

      I'm so sick of the ANC singing to the choir. They say they do, they say it's not good, they say it is good, the say they don't support it, they say they do support it. I mean, I don't think they even know what they think, they are driven by personal income issues and not what's sensible for good solid healthy progress. Come on ANC grow a set of testicles and some backbone and have the foresight to lead and say what you think instead of what's best for you staying in power at the expense of all that is right.

  • CONCERNED - 2011-08-06 08:28

    “The soul of the wicked desires evil; His neighbor finds no favor in his eyes.”, Prov 21:10 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  • CONCERNED - 2011-08-06 08:29

    Other pointers. Why is the ANCYL mum about Chinese abusing black Zimbabweans? Why have China build a big military base in Zim? Recently the ANCYL was going to topple the Botswana “regime”. Botswana responded, “It is Bull Shit that we will be allowing the USA to setup a military base here”. What is this all about? Why is 1000s of ANCYL members receiving military training around the country? Think about this, all of the above is public knowledge, what wicket evil is being concocted in the rooms of the “revolutionary house” that we do not know about? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

      LBS - 2011-08-06 12:30

      I am also worried, and it is NOT because I was reading too many white supremacist sites! The facts you are mentioning are HAPPENING, but unfortunately too many people go around without opening their eyes to reality! The youth in this Country by far outnumbers the others and they love to listen to Malema's ideas, plus they are being encouraged to become Revolutionaries! Call it Economic Revolutionaries if you wish, but wake up!

  • CONCERNED - 2011-08-06 08:30

    Non Blacks (Afrikaners, English, Jews, Indian, Coloured, etc) do not want to hear this, but I am deeply concerned. South Africa today is at level 5 of the Genocide Watch list. At Level 6 Preparation, property expropriation is a major indicator. We are talking Nationalisation, land-grabs without compensation, etc. Level 7 Extermination begins, and quickly becomes the mass killing legally called “genocide” If I read the comments from the ANC/ANCYL/COSATU, I cannot help but to see it in this context. I really, really, really want to be wrong. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

      Phil - 2011-08-06 11:58

      Did Eugene Terreblanche tell you that in a dream ??? LOL. This country is very likely to be decimated economically, become totally dependent on food aid, and achieve levels of poverty and unemployment currently unimaginable by the majority of the populus, but genocide ?????? You have been on too many white supremacist sites, and have probably started bulk buying baked beans ;-)

      Nuck Choris - 2011-08-06 13:09

      @Phil typical head in the sand mentality. If they can kill the Somalians they can come for you to when law and order breaksdown. Ask the Zimbos

      FalseGods - 2011-08-06 13:31

      @Phil I'm sure that's what people were saying when there was first talk about Jew extermination in Nazi Germany, every one deluded themselves, and millions of Jews were killed. The same idiots who actually think Malema is some kind of wise prophet, when he talks about nationalisation, are the same idiots who listen when he says whites are criminals and must be treated as such. The fact that we are listed on an NGO that deals exclusively with genocide, is enough to worry. It is not to say it will happen, but there is enough to say it is a possible reality. Don't be a fool.

      Phil - 2011-08-06 14:28

      @ Nuck Which Zimbos ??????? In all the choas in Zimbabwe, 12 farmers were killed. Sane minded people are better off dealing with the significant number of actual threats, rather than dreaming up fanciful ones, which only detract from the reall issues at hand

      CONCERNED - 2011-08-06 17:44

      @Phil. Even I had a giggle at your post. But unfortunately you are ridiculing me rather than putting facts on the table. Believe me, I want to be wrong. I need to be wrong. If reading the M&G, News24 and Business day is White Supremacist sites, then I am perplexed. In stead of baked beans, I am opting for emigration papers for my family. Our beautiful rainbow nation dream, started by the great man Madiba, is being rubbished. In stead of working with diversity to re-dress inequality, a mentality of take rather than create is taking hold. The masses as well as the wealthy mainstream black population are now hypnotized by this new fantasy world being offered by the ANC/ANCYL/COSATU. Germans today call Hitler a “mad man", but it was “Heil Hitler” in the beginning. A glimpse of the end game for the black masses is in the first link below. If it goes all the way and there is any justice, Julius and company will end up in Den Hague for war crimes against humanity (a rainbow nation - black and white).

      Boertjie - 2011-08-06 18:01

      @Phil. To quote you "sane minded people are better off dealing with the significant number of actual threats, rather than dreaming up fanciful ones, which only detract from the real issues at hand." If you can stomach it, here are the real facts I also think your comment "In all the chaos in Zimbabwe, 12 farmers were killed." are extremely insensitive.

  • Crispybacon - 2011-08-06 08:36

    I love listening to people who say, 'We have a strong Constitution', 'It will cost too much to nationalise mines', 'The companies will never allow this to happen.' As if anybody can stop the ANC from doing what they like. And lets face it, they do win the majority of the votes in this country, so they really are in a position to say 'If you dont like it, leave.' When it comes to the crunch, I personally do not see the ANC being accountable to any institution or person. They pay lip service to the Constitution and our chap 9 institutions, but they will do whatever they can to get their snouts deeper into the trough. Unfortunately Cosatu is correct, it is not a question of if, but rather how..... And to all the whites who say they are leaving if nationalisation goes ahead: Why? In reality, how will the nationalising of mines/farms affect you? The answer is not all that much. Friends who still live in Harare say that things are not that bad there. But again, the irony of SA is evident, the people most likely to get screwed, i.e. the poor, are for the policy that will affect them the most, and us mlungus are the ones that scream the loudest against a policy that will have little impact overall on our lives. Gotta love this country...

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 12:03

      Let me give you just one example of how you will be affected: Lets say the government takes over 51% of the mining companies. What are the functions of stock market shareholders? They supply money in order for the business to expand its business operations. Lets say government spends the profits it gets from mines on social projects as Julius Malema urges. In other words, government doesn't invest a single cent back into the mining industry. What will happen? The companies will have 51% less capital to spend on the business and therefore the business will expand at rate 51% slower than usual - job creation at 1/2 the speed. The speed of expansion of mining is determined by the INCREASE in the number of shares. That is how businesses gain working capital. Do you see how you will be affected? 1/2 the jobs will be created than usual! The businesses will grow at half the speed as half less investment is available to the company. Shareholders invest their profits back into the stock market. Government doesn't. As Malema says: those profits need to be spent on the poor and not invested back into the company.

      Crispybacon - 2011-08-06 12:43

      @Nasdaq7 - I agree with everything you said. BUT, I already have a job, a good one at that, and my guess is so do you. In fact, most of the white people in this country have decent jobs. So job creation is aimed at mainly creating jobs for the black people. Thats why I ask the question, How is it going to affect the white people, who seem to be whinging the loudest?

      Nuck Choris - 2011-08-06 13:07

      Rubbish, the value distruction of my assets that I have worked 20 years for will be mind numbing. The rand will go to pot, so I will not be able to Travel....etc etc etc

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 14:44

      Crispybacon the Rand will fall to R20 per $. The country will experience a shortage of capital as foreign investors flee the country. The prices of food will double or even triple as we import most of our food and pay $ Inflation will sky-rocket as it did in Venezuela, which has the highest in South America at 29% in 2011. As inflation increases to 25% interest rates will rise to 30% or higher. The stock market will crash as it did in Zimbabwe. The government will experience an acute shortage of cash as the stock market provides an enormous amount tax, investment, taxes will be increased on everyone to make up for that shortfall. The economy will shed jobs, not only in mining, but any business that is mining related. The amount of money that is available for government spending will decrease as it did in Zimbabwe - consequently there won't be enough money to maintain roads, hospitals, police. The country's credit rating will fall as it did in Venezuela, Zimbabwe. International loans will become more difficult to obtain. The mines won't be adequately maintained and will close as not enough money is invested in them. Millions will be out of jobs. Crime will increase. The country's top mining employees will seek employment in profitable mining companies overseas. The high interest rates will cause the housing market and house prices to collapse. Pension funds will decline in value. Where someone would have received R7,000 when they retired, they will receive R3500 etc. etc. etc.

      Crispybacon - 2011-08-06 18:03

      Nasdaq - Again I agree with you. And all the things you have mentioned will happen! However, considering that the picture you have painted concerns only the formal economy, and more than 50% of our population operates in the informal economy, all our arguments and economics seem irrelevant. You tell a shack dweller from Motherwell in PE that if they nationalise the mines, SAs ability to borrow on the bond market will be shattered. Tell him that his pension fund is now only worth three grand instead of seven. What do you think his response will be? All those in favour of nationalising had to do is convince the masses, and how hard do you think that will be? Reading the thread above about comparisons between Norway and mining - you and I understand the value of a billion $, but to many people they just see taking over the mines as meaning more money for less/no work. I am not for nationalising, but at the same time I think it is raising a very valid point - that the poor in this country are fed up. We are one of the most unequal societies in the world, and when top execs av salary goes from 4 to 4.5 million a year, while workers are earning peanuts, we are heading towards either nationalisation or an uprising reminiscent of the Middle East. The status quo in this country needs to change, rapidly, and if that means my earnings have to decrease so that those that earn less than me can earn more, then so be it. I would rather live in a more equal society, with less anger and hate

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 18:32

      Crispybacon Google free market capitalism Singapore. The ANC is the problem and NOT the capitalist system that has proved its worth over 250 years. The ANC should remove minimum wages. Privatize everything under government control. Lower corporate taxes and personal income taxes to 20% and 30% respectively. Just google Singapore and visit it someday. And visit the other successful wealthy countries. The more you read the more you will understand someday. It is about creating world class businesses - wealth follows those that do. There is nothing to tell the poor, be strong and lead.

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 21:37 "Singapore's unemployment rate is around 2.2% as of 20 February 2009. As of 8 August 2010, Singapore is the fastest growing economy in the world, with a growth rate of 17.9% for the first half of 2010." I'm selling the real deal, I'm not selling fairy tales. The promised land is out there, but it is going to require commitment from everyone. We don't need to convince the poor of anything, they are not dancing in the streets demanding nationalization of mines. We need to lead and the current leader in the world is Singapore. Follow its example. It is Julius Malema that wants to nationalize everything to advance his political career. We only need to convince Julius Malema, COSATU and NUM.

  • artpaper - 2011-08-06 08:42

    Where did you get this news from? Because on Thursday I listened to an ANC female member denouce Nationalisation of the mines as dangerous to foreign investment and is not encouraged by the ANC. That was on the news of Radio CCFM 107.5.

      Phil - 2011-08-06 11:47

      Artpaper - you are making the error of thinking that the ANC is an entity, rather than a shambolic collection of individuals that represent just about every viewpoint from capitalism to communism, male chauvanism to feminism, christianity to witch-doctoring, non-racism to African Nationalism (and white nationalism if you count the remains of the NP). Alas, we non-ANC supporters had better get comfy on the sidelines whilst Manuel vs Malema plays out. If the former wins (which i doubt) SA has a future, if the latter wins, then as sure as night follows day SA will go down the pan, creating a clean sweep of failed African nations.

      LBS - 2011-08-06 12:22

      I also still had a little bit of hope, hoping on Manuel or Moeketsi, but why is Manuel so quiet?

  • Stryder - 2011-08-06 09:10

    In Norway nationalisation has worked very well and has benefitted society as a whole. But this is not Norway...

      Nasdaq7 - 2011-08-06 11:12

      Oil can be extracted 14x easier than any commodity. You just drill an oil well and place an oil derrick over it. What are the annual sales of Royal Dutch Shell? $368 bn. How many employees does Royal Dutch Shell have? 101,000. How much revenue does 1 oil worker produce? $368bn divided by 101,000 workers = $3,643,564 per worker. What is Anglo American's annual sales? $27bn. How many workers does Anglo American have? 107,000. How much revenue does one mining worker produce for Anglo American? $253,000. Lets compare oil income per worker vs. mining income per worker. $3,643,564 vs. $253,000 = 14. Oil workers produce 14 times more revenue than mine workers. What is therefore the most valuable commodity? Oil. Oil revenues are 14 times more important than mining reserves. So the revenue gained from mining is 14 times less than that from mining, and now people want to urge nations that have MINERALS and METALS to nationalize as if it is OIL. Clearly there is a 14 times more compelling reason for nationalizing oil reserves than mining reserves. Norway can urge SA to nationalize their mining and metals - knowing that they Norway is in a 14x better position to make such a recommendation than South Africans. If it turns out badly, then they are 14 times better off than South Africans. They can rely on oil. We have to rely on a resource worth 14x less.

      Brent - 2011-08-06 13:48

      @ stryder: this means that the equivelent Shell SA would have to have 13765930 workers?

      MyPal_Al - 2011-08-06 14:19

      What he (Nasdaq7) said!!!

  • jonessierob - 2011-08-06 09:21

    it was the anc plan from the eginning, we were just to idiotic to see it,im afraid the anc did it again ,fooling us to believe they really want democracy ,you have to admit, they are damn good at atleast something

  • Hein Boucher - 2011-08-06 09:25

    "We are saying it must be looked at as an option and if it is looked at as an option, we must see what is the best practice." That is like saying that if we are going to buy a car, we are looking at how to buy a car; we just need to decide which one is cheapest. But they never say they are NOT going to buy the car......

      Fred - 2011-08-06 11:21

      @Hein ... Well, now it is in the open, the fact that the ANC ruling party has admitted that it does not oppose nationalisation, it is obvious that they will do their best to nationalise mines, and then any other profitable business. So it looks to me like we can say - "Bye-bye investors" and then within 5 years, "Hello my Chinese masters" as they come and take over the dregs of what was once a profitable economy. As for the ANC bigwigs, they won't care because they will already have stolen all the money out of the country anyway. Woe is us !!!!!

      LBS - 2011-08-06 12:19

      "If you say business needs certainty to make investments... this is the certainty you need to have, that what is being discussed now is models," Malekane said. It is clear, there you have it! All cards on the table! I tend to agree that the Chinese is slowly infiltrating more and more by the day....

  • gatvol4corru - 2011-08-06 10:58

    eeeh comrade,what does this mean? No more tender-sharing? No more corruption? I know,we will say -- it is for freedom and sharing wealth. But ,don't touch JZ,Shaik,Cele,Sexwale,Julius or any of the cousins,ok?

  • bruce.laval - 2011-08-06 11:11

    I personally don't believe the ANC is for nationalization but it is also difficult for them to come out and say it without creating a political split in the country for and against it. They will come out next year after they have done there due diligence and say the evidence shows that natiuonalization is not good for the country we have looked at other places that it was implemented all with negative results. Mines are also not these massively profitable things that people believe them to be a lot can go wrong when running a mine.

      Saige - 2011-08-06 12:27

      @bruce.laval - My thinking echoes yours. I hope we're right.

      Neutkraker - 2011-08-06 13:06

      Time to wake up bruce, the pot is getting warmer.

      Freddie - 2011-08-06 18:15

      The problem is that they are not investigating if it is feasible or not but looking at which model works best. This is the most concerning aspect of all.

  • alootacontin - 2011-08-06 12:06

    All the white and black south africans who want the best for your country should all WAKE UP and cast your minds to Zimbabwe, who have done exactly what you are all scared of; got rid of most of the whites and normal thinking blacks, and have control over almost everything now to enrich themselves beyond you not remember Hitler Hunji..............he was the start.......and Mugabe always said: Don't listen to what I say, watch what I do........mmm food for thought and making plans?

      Ayoba - 2011-08-08 09:33

      Please share light with me. Who said anything about getting rid of whites or any other race for that matter? I will fight that person myself.

  • kristaffa - 2011-08-06 12:21

    "ANC: We don't oppose nationalisation" and yet they are planning on selling Pamodzi Orkney gold mine to the Chinese... They are just trying to keep the ANCYL quiet by saying that. lol

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