Fin24

Lonmin offer falls far short of demands

2012-09-14 09:52

Johannesburg - Lonmin [JSE:LON] has offered striking workers a R900 increase to R5 500 a month for entry-level workers, "very far" from their demand of R12 500, National Union of Mineworkers general secretary Frans Baleni said on Friday.

"Lonmin is offering to adjust the rate of entry-level (workers) from R4 600 towards R5 500, an increase of about R900. Then all operators will be upgraded, by one grade up," Baleni told the BBC World Service radio Newsday programme.

Baleni said this was far from the worker's demand of R12 500 and he was unsure how they would respond to the company's proposal.

"It's very far," he said.

"We will hear how workers are responding to the offer, given that negotiation is give and take."

Baleni said he was unsure of how rival union, Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union (Amcu), would respond.

"It will depend if they are really pragmatic and willing to look at the interests of those workers, as well as the interests of our economy. We hope every player in these negotiations will take that into account," Baleni told the BBC.

Workers at the Lonmin mine have been on an illegal strike for four weeks, demanding a salary of R12 500.

Last month, the protest turned violent and police shot dead 34 protesters and injured 78. A total of 45 people have been killed in incidents related to the strike.

Baleni said he was worried about job losses in the platinum sector and said 4 800 jobs had already been lost due to illegal strikes.

He was also worried about violence and intimidation during these labour disputes.

Baleni said the labour unrest spreading throughout mines in the North West was being orchestrated for political reasons.

"Clearly this is a co-ordinated and orchestrated approach, and we have a firm belief that it has political undertones. Certain people are using mineworkers to advance their political goals," Baleni said.


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Comments
  • osmaseko - 2012-09-14 09:58

    They might as well shut down the mine, because I promise you...the miners won't accept this.

      tinotenda.panashe - 2012-09-14 10:43

      And Maseko, why should he tell BBC? Why can't he go there and talk to miners? Is is he not a representative of the miners. Now he communicates with miners through BBC! And why should the owner of the mine buy a buffalo for R20million and can't give his workers a living wage?

      Rabbler.Rouser - 2012-09-14 10:46

      Perhaps they can look for other jobs. They are there of their own free will. If they can find better paid jobs elsewhere then they are free to apply at a new employer. It's their choice.

      osmaseko - 2012-09-14 10:54

      How can a worker representative address the media before addressing the workers? This is the reason NUM should not address the workers..they are just useless

      osmaseko - 2012-09-14 10:55

      RabbleRouser The mine has failed to live up to the mining license agreement....mines should uplift the communites...Lonmin has done nothing for the commuity hence you see the community up in arms now..this is not about the miners anymore..!

      chris.bekker.77 - 2012-09-14 11:00

      @tinotenda How is the fact that the owner of the mine have bought himself a buffalo relevant, this is the problem. How is paying R5500 for unschooled labor not taking care of his workers? This owner provides for 1000+ families. I just think people must start being more realistic in their approach to the situation and think to them self that owner maby some good choices and therefore is in the position that his in.

      bob.mcmillen.564 - 2012-09-14 11:10

      20% increase sounds a good starting poit to me, a lot more realistic than a 300% increase.

      bob.mcmillen.564 - 2012-09-14 11:11

      oops, point

      siphiwo.spitch - 2012-09-14 11:18

      @RabbleRouser, I second that... These people are being misled by their leaders who are pushing their own agendas through exploiting the minds of those are unwilling to use their own!

      talita.vandermerwe - 2012-09-14 11:20

      @tinotenda - You are absolutely right. The owner of the mine cares only about himself.

      nardus.debeer - 2012-09-14 11:29

      I think this is a great offer they will recive a almost 20% pay increase and i think that is fair. Sure is is way short of the R 12 500.00 demanded, but we must keep in mind this is a entry level pay. In other words any person that whants to work in the mine that never before worked in a mine, basically zero experiance no formal training will get R 5 500.00 a month. If you ask me that is a verry nice offer. If the workers don't lower their 300% increase demand I say fire the lot of them they will come crying back for work. Lonmin is not the "bad boss", the workers are just insane. But here is what is going to happen: the strikers will reject the offer and say R 12 500.00 or nothing. Lonmin will up the offer to about R 6 000.00 (an increase of +-35% that will also be rejected, but they will lower the demand to R 10 000.00. Lonmin will then give the workers a offer of R 6 600.00 a 50% increase that will be accepted by the worker because they cant survive longer without any payment.

      elgh.elgh - 2012-09-14 11:34

      My boss will reply with the following words if I demand a 300% increase. "I suggest you get your CV updated"

      richard.hipkin - 2012-09-14 11:37

      @osmaseko, the mines must uplift the community? Sounds like government palming off their responsibilities onto the mines. How many of those "community" people actually work at the mine?

      brian.robertson.16940 - 2012-09-14 11:46

      Gift,its getting a bit stale about blaming all the past.May I ask how old you are??

      lorain.maseko - 2012-09-14 11:50

      @ Pointblank yes the mines must uplift the community instead of just raping the land without the inhabitants gaining anything

      maltacular.zinj - 2012-09-14 12:00

      Having uneducated labour can only be fixed by the government and the miners need not take advantage of people like that. Ever heard of ethical behaviour? Its not just about paying a minimum to avoid the law but the owners need to "care" about their employees and be more involved in uplifting the society. I say, if they are not willing to do that then they better stat looking to get those damn minerals in Europe and leave our Africa alone

      maltacular.zinj - 2012-09-14 12:42

      @point blank - it's actually accepted practice around the world for the government to enforce such practices otherwise in certain industries like energy, agriculture and yes mining otherwise they risk losing their rights if they do not fulfill such responsibilities. So the question is if the organisation is doing so well then why should it not translate into the community's well-being? Surely it is the workers that risk their, health and indeed their lives everyday for a fat whitey sitting somewhere in Europe. They better meet our demands or else ........

      wo0two0t - 2012-09-14 13:25

      Gift you need to look at the History of South Africa - white’s aren’t to blame for everything that is wrong today. Do you honestly think blacks are always correct and they cannot be racist? Xhosas, Zulus etc. where no more educated before apartheid then what they were during it and the same applies today even though the ANC run the show - my take is that most African leaders have no interest in educating their people only looking out for their own interests - look at Africa vs the world the proof is in the pudding. Also by looking around our beautiful country most locals seem more interested in claiming someone else’s hard earned money/business then working to create their own – how on earth does that help anyone?

  • squeegee.pilot - 2012-09-14 09:59

    Shut down, fire the lot. Reopen and hire people who understand the word 'negotiate'.

      bobese.manyani - 2012-09-14 10:02

      unfortunately they cant Squeegee the labour law does not allow that. they will have to pay quite a lot to do that than to increase thier offer.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 10:14

      The labour law does allow them to be fired if they fail to go back to work after ?7 days. The correct procedures just need to be followed though: call them for a disciplinary hearing and if they fail to arrive they can get fired.

      wwrer.ww - 2012-09-14 10:41

      I feel sorry for them. For their 12 dependents. Perhaps they should have thought about that before they had so many kids.

      rodney.overes - 2012-09-14 11:30

      According to the labour law as I understand it they have already fired themselves as they have not gone back after 7 days that is desertion, and secondly the mine has given them enough time to return to work ,what they did not do.

      frans.visserdsb - 2012-09-14 15:39

      Actually bobese, if the workers are involved in an illegal strike, the mine can fire the lot. in fact the offer they have on the table for minimum entry level wage is very good compared to other sectors - it is approximately equivalent to R27.50 per hour, which is the minimum wage for a skilled worker (task grade 6) in the construction industry. Please remember - this is a business, not a charity. any business has to remain profitable, or th shareholders will simply shut it down and invest their money elsewhere where they can make a profit. If the business remains profitable, the shareholders will invest more money, creating more jobs. If you are not happy with earning a minimum wage, the answer is easy. work hard, ask to go on courses, better yourself, and go up in the mine structure. this is the way it works in life - you cannot expect to be paid the same amount of money as an unskilled and unschooled worker as someone who has a tertiary education and is skilled and experienced.

  • thokozane.maloka - 2012-09-14 10:03

    This won't end well.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 11:33

      I agree, the only losers will be the miners and theire dependents. All together it could be 400 000 people to suffer (40 000 miners with 10 people depending on each 1).

  • mandy.ferreira.773 - 2012-09-14 10:05

    You cannot take blood from a stone. Something is better than nothing. But these sheepish protesters just follow and do not think. Times are hard.......

      victoria.kennedy.3532 - 2012-09-14 10:27

      Exactly my thoughts. And since there has been very little or no production at the mine for over a month how on earth do these "highly educated" fools expect their increases to be paid? Its simply beyond me how these fools rationalise their behaviour! So what are they going to do if the mine goes bankrupt? Then they wont receive any salary. I wish everyone was required to understand the basic principle on how the economy works. No work = no pay. No work = no production/sales/etc. No manufacturing = no money made by business. No money made by business = no work for employees. No work for employees = no salary.

      Andrew - 2012-09-14 10:48

      @mandy i think u a missing something here,the miners situation is bad,to them 'little is nothing' and they dont care if they lose their jobs or not because the pain is the same!

      jack.blacking.56 - 2012-09-14 11:12

      @andrew.."the miners situation is bad" Well then if it's so bad then why dont they just quit their jobs? "dont care if they lose their jobs or not because the pain is the same" Ok, so why the hell are they protesting?

  • jaco.kriek.5 - 2012-09-14 10:08

    No pride in providing for their families and an entitlement mentality is at the root of this..... in a country where unemployment is rife, people should be happy with a job, period, not striking for better wages! And to strike for crazy wages is just stupid....

  • phathuchicos - 2012-09-14 10:09

    Marikana miners don't even know how indebted Lonmin is hey... If Lonmin goes down believe me this guys will regret the day started the march and on top of it all which mining company will want to recruit ex-Lonmin workers?

  • pompies.burger - 2012-09-14 10:10

    This is almost a 20% increase, which is massive. I have an Engineering degree and received an entry-level salary of just over R10k. Now people with no education are expecting R12k. Seriously???

      marike.colyn - 2012-09-14 10:51

      As far as I understand they want a R12 500 NETT salary - they want that after all deductions for tax, housing, medical aid and pension fund.

  • ditantane.kganakga - 2012-09-14 10:11

    this is not helping the situation, NUM is also not helping.

  • jimmy.sekgobela.39 - 2012-09-14 10:11

    The offer is rubbish. Is insult to the dead comrades.

      victoria.kennedy.3532 - 2012-09-14 10:32

      Basic principles that you clearly don't get: No work = no pay. No work = no production/sales/etc. No manufacturing = no money made by business. No money made by business = no work for employees. No work for employees = no salary. I have three Bcom degrees and I hardly get paid more than R12500 a month, I dont have any benefits and Im taxed to capacity to pay for this corrupt govt. Do us all a favour and impart your opinion when you have something of worth to say!

      tomupeyishe.gwata.7 - 2012-09-14 10:43

      I really feel sorry for those who were killed in this struggle, they lost their lives, their wives and children will never have a husband and father anymore, now those who were lucky not to be shot now want to use the dead. What benefit will the dead men get even if Lonmin offers R20 k a month. What will the families of the dead get out of that. The dead comrades will never get anything. I m surprised the Lonmin management is negotiating with people without an organisation. This clearly shows how stupid the management is.

      tinotenda.panashe - 2012-09-14 10:45

      You are right Jimmy, very rubbish. He should just take back the R20million paid for the buffalo and add it to the workers wage. Doesn't that make sense?

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 11:19

      Another idiot from Juju's "break, burn and demand" brigade.

      bob.mcmillen.564 - 2012-09-14 11:29

      jimmy, your comrades are dead because they attacked police with loaded guns, knives and pangas, did they honestly expect the police to run away, and what about the ten innocent people that were killed by the out of control striking workers, they are the ones I feel sorry for.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 11:39

      Turning it down will lead to job losses, maybe up to 40 000 jobs.

  • deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 10:16

    It can only end badly for the workers, the company bosses (Cyril R and Co) will survive.

  • ck1ab - 2012-09-14 10:20

    I am distraught! Why are they even negotiating with group while they are engaging in criminal behavior!? They are setting a president for other potential strikers communicating "crime pays! you may use violence, intimidation, bullying, destruction of property etc to get your way. There is no need to follow the law or channels that have been established for negotiations" I am distraught at the impotence of our government in resolving this issue. A very strong action should have been taken against the illegal strikers, and the government should have unapologetically said "we are all for fairness and promotion of prosperity for all... but we do NOT negotiate with "terrorists". If you want fairness and your voice to be heard, follow the laws and structures given to you to do so"

  • peter.fraser.92754 - 2012-09-14 10:20

    Supermarkets in the area is going to have another bad month end.

  • anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 10:21

    Dream on with new ventures like fracking in the karoo. It's dead before it has even started, notwithstanding my view that is both unethical and negligent to even have allowed exploration for fracking in the first place due to all the environmental damage that will be caused, permanently. The minimum salary of R12k to R18k/month will mean it's unprofitable from the word go. The culture is "we demand we demand we demand" and if they don't get what they want the resources must be burned. Then 10 000 queue for 30x learnership opportunities. What's wrong with this picture? What does Juju's followers really want?

  • machoene.kaizer - 2012-09-14 10:23

    4000 2 12000 increase come on mine workers,you want to earn more than teachers and nurses?

  • peterdonb - 2012-09-14 10:29

    It is interesting to see how the power play pans out. My guess is that Lonmin management and government has an old strategy running. It's the old 'we have done all we could, but they still do not listen' card, before you pull the plug. From a PR perspective this is a good strategy. How this will impact on strikers that does not really care about their PR profile is going to be interesting. The dilemma is that when the Lonmin strikers see that what they have done promise the possibility of success, no matter how small, they will most likely continue. It may also be that other mine strikers (and maybe other workers in other sectors) see this as the way to go and the wildcat strikes may sweep the country. Is this not the reason why service delivery unrest has spread all over? The moment that one community reached success, the others soon follow. Are we looking at the same trend in the mines and later in the other sectors? Time will tell. I'm not nearly as worried about the man (Malema), than I am about the fact that the cry for 'nationalisation' seem to resonate with the plebs. This may very well force the ANC to take harsher decisions concerning government intervention in the private industries, than we may have hoped for. Manguang is certainly going to be the box office hit that many have predicted. Interesting times. Nevertheless, let us see which strategy ultimately succeed. Will it be Zuma or Malema? And the miners? Well, they are simply cannon fodder in the power mongering

  • Harold Chisimba - 2012-09-14 10:31

    Ooo yes! Wat abrilliant offer,To the thankless,violent and sluggish comrades. Well done! Your never-give-up greedy and stupidity has pathetically paid.

  • vanrooyend - 2012-09-14 10:32

    271% increase demanded. No company can afford that. Worst of all, the unions bosses are standing behind them.

  • sheryl.delilly - 2012-09-14 10:33

    I am disgusted by this Lonmin offer. These poor people put their lives in danger on a daily basis and these fat cats are are insulting them with this pathetic offer!!

  • zelda.dickson - 2012-09-14 10:34

    Well they can give up work and not earn anything. There are plenty out there who would love their jobs.

  • JevonMarshallJohnson - 2012-09-14 10:34

    Thats a 20% increase!!!! Nobody gets 20% except maybe politicians!

  • dewald.galjaard - 2012-09-14 10:36

    Falls short on demands but close to reality.

  • aroka.murombe - 2012-09-14 10:36

    Pathetic

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:05

      Yes rather get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • marcus.lebuso - 2012-09-14 10:38

    thrs 1thng tht u guys dnt c,thy wont accpt it cos stil it brings more of the strike watch the space. My point is its far frm their demand nd its what mining workers demand thrughout s.a,what amplats demand thy r going to get with increase of housing allowance nd its tym lonmin consider demanding more housing allowance

      bob.mcmillen.564 - 2012-09-14 11:32

      marcus, because you DEMAND something does not mean you are going to get it, GET IT.

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:06

      Yes rather get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • jason.heineberg - 2012-09-14 10:41

    I don't understand how this R12500 became a right. Relative to the salaries for other professions in SA, its not realistic.

      linda.nzimamazibuko - 2012-09-14 11:29

      I guess mine management ought to re-look at their salaries and compare to these to RDO's salaries. Mine executive salaries last year. I. Farmer was R24Million, Nick Hollard R32M and Nevill Nicolus's R21.5 Millions and yet the person making money for the company is earning R72K per annum! I therefore conclude that they should either cut their salaries or pay the 12500!

      herman.mouton - 2012-09-14 11:38

      @linda.nzimamazibuko > Does the worker carry any risk in the business venture ie. would they be liable to workers or investors should anything go wrong? Did the workers invest money in the business?? If not they have nothing to say about what other people are with huge vested interest in the business are earning.

      ck1ab - 2012-09-14 11:41

      Linda, salaries are determined by many aspects: skill/expertise required, responsibility, weight of decisions etc. The mine workers have low skills, low responsibility and their decisions have little or no impact on the business. They can go and drill and dig as much as they want, but without a market there no-one to sell it to; without a logistics system, there is no way to get it to the market; without a plant there is no way to separate the product from the waste; without a shaft and its subsequent equipment, there is no access to the ore; without a supply chain management structure, there is no equipment to work with; without exploration and geological models, you won't know where to dig the ore from; without a HR function, there is no training for your guys to work safely; etc... it is NOT the laborers making money, it is the entire organization working together that makes money. Salaries should be evaluated based on your contribution to the organization's ability to make money. And please, let us all not forget, organizations exist to create shareholder value (make sustainable profits), not to pay wages.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 11:47

      Linda the bosses might cut theire own salaries but will surely cut jobs now as well. They had no production for more than a month now, other expenses are not stopping.

      jason.heineberg - 2012-09-14 11:48

      Do some simple maths. Lets assume its possible to take these massive annual annual earnings of these 3 individuals and divide them up among all employees (this is already unrealistic do as this would never happen but lets do it anyways to prove a point). So that comes close to R78 million. A lot right? Well according to wikipedia, Lonmin employed 27800 people in 2011. So divide that 78 mil by 27800 and you get roughly R2805. That works out to R234 a month each, a lot less than the R900 they were just offered. Now obviously I didn't factor everything in here, but you must get my point.....

      frans.visserdsb - 2012-09-14 15:54

      Linda, you cannot really be that stupid? A mine executive is someone who has studied, is involved in planning and managing a business. If you were to offer him R12500 per month, he would just go somewhere else. It is simply a case of supply and demand. Do you think the uneducated unskilled labourer would be able to do the mine exec's job? nope. You pay for the skills these guys have. If they don't get it here, they will get it in Australia. Or Canada... The point is that we need managers to make a business run profitably. The shareholders have no problem paying these execs these salaries, because managing a business like this is a massive undertaking which requires a lot of skill.

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-09-14 10:44

    Simple, they take the offer or they don't get paid anymore. Lonmin need to grow a pair as far as I'm concerned, no more negotiation.

  • Giyangethambo - 2012-09-14 10:47

    its not very far, its an insult. but NUM is not striking, why is this parasite Baleni commenting?

      gngaleka - 2012-09-14 11:29

      Commenting because his union is the one that's negotiating, not just inciting to go arround killing people and making unreasonable demands.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 11:48

      His members are the majority at the mine and hopefully he will get them working again.

      Giyangethambo - 2012-09-14 12:26

      but his is a parasite!

  • jay.ramodiana - 2012-09-14 10:47

    This is a joke really we will never heard the end of this Lonmin management should make a reasonable offer if they serious maybe start with R7000 that's what Implats platinum did with that strike and it worked for them

      rowan.maulson - 2012-09-14 10:57

      How about Lonmin just shut down? Because that is what will happen at the salary you're mentioning.

      jay.ramodiana - 2012-09-14 11:24

      But Impala platinum did it the company is still running R7000 is not bad really

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:08

      Yes rather get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • barrie.murphy.1 - 2012-09-14 10:47

    Everybody on here is complaining about what the miners want as an increase in their pay. Why should we, just because we don't stand up for all the crap salaries we get offered from big corporations. every person in Government receives a salary based on markets across the world, and so the fat cats and directors of companies. So why should we as the workers put up with the pathetic entry level salaries, and working conditions, when our salaries do not even com anywhere close to the world wide market average. Personally I think it's time that all workers teachers, army, nurses, police officers, secretaries, entry level engineers etc etc to stand up for themselves and demand that we dont get ripped off. SA's biggest export is skills, as soon as someone is qualified and get's a chance to go overseas..their off. How are we meant to better our country if we do not retain our skilled workers, and make them proud of their jobs.

      irma.white.9 - 2012-09-14 11:45

      While you make a good point, remember that our service providers (the police, nurses, teachers) will NEVER earn as much as teachers, cops, etc overseas because, quite frankly, they don't deserve to. Our workforce is LAZY! They want to make a quick buck, hence all the corruption. While their skills play a part, as with all companies, so does their competence. Please tell me why a nurse who allows a newborn baby to die while she is on strike deserves a raise? Please tell me why a police officer who shoots at a car that he THINKS was hijacked (killing the driver) deserves a raise? Yes there are good nurses and good cops, but as a whole, this country does not live up to international standards, thus why should they get international salaries?

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:09

      You don't have to. Rather get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • frans.vanderpoll - 2012-09-14 10:47

    I say pay these fools what they want (R12500,00) for two/three month, than file for bankruptcy. See how they'll afford to support their families.

  • mbutanaxaba - 2012-09-14 10:49

    Those people work bloody hard. This is mining industry, we have degrees and we understand their demands. They deserve it. I wish some of you can see them life working. They can earn more than nurses n teachers, what is the problem? How much millions do corrupt leaders misuse in SA?

      christiaan.vanvuuren.9 - 2012-09-14 11:46

      Ntf that a illiterate uneducated person \deserves\ more than educated people. This is litteraly the base of employment, and you cannot stand there making demands the consequences of which you do not grasp. Yes they work hard, but this is not enough. For more pay you need promotion, for promotion you need education and this has always been the way. Now these people want to change that because they would rather phuza than go sit in a college

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:11

      Read http://www.marikana-truth.com/

  • phumi.ntlabati - 2012-09-14 10:50

    This offer is a spin in the face of those 34 miners that died crying for a decent wage! Lonmin can take this increase and shove it up Queen's Elizabeth you know where area! We demand a minimum of R12500 net and asijiki!!! Amandla!!

      ck1ab - 2012-09-14 10:56

      Phumi, those 34 miners died charging at the police with pangas, spears and knopkierries in hand.

      bob.mcmillen.564 - 2012-09-14 11:36

      And guns.

      raymond.buis.3 - 2012-09-14 11:36

      What about the people they murdered. They are not the victims here.

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:13

      1. http://www.marikana-truth.com/ 2. Yes rather get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • wiscoh - 2012-09-14 10:56

    My intuition tells me that 6500-7000 ws gona be better. Dts a slap in the face...they r insulting workers. Frans baleni must go jump in the pool.

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:14

      He can't. His pool is broken...eish!

  • marcus.lebuso - 2012-09-14 10:57

    let lonmin make way fr xstrata cos it pays better,rdo gets 16k nd its general worker gets around 12k so mokoena nd kgotle thy must consult with c.e.o nd cal 4 a board meeting to sell lonmin to xstrata period

      anakin.skyvader - 2012-09-14 13:16

      1. http://www.marikana-truth.com/ 2. Get one of those application forms for a learnership, the one where 10 000 jobless applicants pitched up for 30x learnership openings. "We demand...we demand...we demand..."

  • michael.barns.1 - 2012-09-14 10:57

    Ok so what you are now saying is you have been lying all along that your workers are paid R10500 - R11000pm, if you have just offered them R5500...

      christiaan.vanvuuren.9 - 2012-09-14 11:37

      5.5k net salary mate... Not gross

      michael.barns.1 - 2012-09-14 12:51

      you telling me they are getting R5500 worth of deductions?! yussis does anybody have a breakdown?

  • chrisenmaryann - 2012-09-14 11:00

    This offer is a 19.5% increase cpi is about 7%....? For the 3000 strikers alone this would be a R2.7 mil increase per month about R32mil per year.Personally if I had to pay my staff that kind of increase we will close doors.

      michael.barns.1 - 2012-09-14 11:31

      not if your company made R2 billion profit last year!

  • beki.khumalo - 2012-09-14 11:00

    This is not about to end!!! Do you think it could be that miners are aware that the CEO of Lonmin earns R24 million per year? The gap between the salaries of the Execs and ordinary employees is too wide. It could be that these are some of the issue that fuel such strikes...

      christiaan.vanvuuren.9 - 2012-09-14 11:33

      1st of all, he is one person. If you had a sense of risk and reward you would understand that a ceo is entitled to that pay. I promise you that none of these strikers, not one, would be able to do the job of the ceo for a week. 2nd of all 24m is nowhere close to what all the miners recieve per year. And you cannot compare them individually because their responsibilities differ vastly. And if the.ceo demanded a 300% salary increase it would still be more affordable for the mine than 300% to all miners...

      ck1ab - 2012-09-14 13:15

      Beki, the CEO is able to single-handedly make decisions that could lose or gain the company R100m's. That is why you pay a good salary for CEO's: to get the one that will make the best decisions for the company.

  • Daniel Mah - 2012-09-14 11:06

    R900 - that's 20% increased - you'll never get that in a corporate world

  • Masixole Riovendo-rio Matshaya - 2012-09-14 11:09

    I personally think it is absurdity and insanity to call this a salary increase, this is adjustment of remuneration, if that was the case they wouldn't demand R8 000 on top of R4 500. an increase of R900 would be accepted, a R12 500 demanded by miners is what a miner should be getting nowadays, not any ones fault that the mines had not been increasing it accordingly on yearly basis, Now is the time!!! and ey,,, if you Pa is a farmer he must be warn, coming there too,,,yadayading there's violence and crime in S.A, who started it. when ya stole the land, killed innocents, intolerance acts, and extra. stop yada yada and be part of solution, you've done worse damaged ya too

  • pieterjohan.westhuizen - 2012-09-14 11:14

    Open vacancies to the public outside Ppppppllllleeeeaaaasssee

  • irma.white.9 - 2012-09-14 11:18

    Ok wait, let me get this right... ENTRY LEVEL workers want R12 500? Not even the highly skilled workers, but ENTRY LEVEL?! What planet are they from?! The offer that they have received is FAR above the "normal" increase percentage and quite frankly, I think most people are lucky if they get a couple of hundred bucks extra for their increases. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? And what is wrong with Julius Malema- being such a "big boy" who thinks he knows so much, should know the miners will NEVER get such a big increase! You know what. Give them the R12 500. Then take away all their benefits and subsidies, then they'll see how far that R12 500 get them. Geeze, not even I earn that much. Ungrateful fools.

      michael.barns.1 - 2012-09-14 11:32

      um if you are charging someone for a benefit then how can it be called a benefit? Think about that one....

      irma.white.9 - 2012-09-14 12:07

      Oh man Michael please don't be pedantic, please just note my general point.

  • naas.prinsloo - 2012-09-14 11:19

    It always astonishes me that when any new employee/contractor applies to do work for the employer - there is an agreed upon rate, which is part of their employment contract. This needs to be signed by both parties. But right after the contracts are signed, the employee disputes and isn't happy anymore. No one forced you to sign and accept the details as well as the rate of payment. If you don't like it = don't sign and look for another job. Give someone else the change to accept it and have a job. Plain and simple......

  • mike.burrows.37 - 2012-09-14 11:20

    I believe the miners are not worried if the mines are shutdown. They will all just relocate to Jepeordy. Somebody told then if the mines close there oare thousands of jobs in jepeordy .

  • tshepo.maganedisa - 2012-09-14 11:22

    @Baleni can we stick at the negotiations, 1st get those rights and then tackle the next task - you will be very lucky if those miners dont eat you alive with that offer, its either you are a joke or your mine bosses are.come up with something concrete or resign anyway no one will miss you by the looks of things

  • pronape - 2012-09-14 11:23

    This is a joke they are stil offering less than thousand rand they should have at least given with R9500,it s realy disgrace to lonmin management,this people they ll never accept dat 900.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 11:58

      The increase is R900, not the whole salary wich is R5 500 for entry level workers. Entry level workers are those with no experience and probably needs some training first. Some secretaries with matric start with less.

      irma.white.9 - 2012-09-14 12:09

      When I started working full time, my salary was R4000 BEFORE deductions. It took me four years (working full time) to earn the salary they are being offered, and my boss didn't pay for my rent. Think about it like a reasonable person.

  • irvin.mkhari - 2012-09-14 11:26

    they must be joking,what kind of increase is that?

      jay.ramodiana - 2012-09-14 11:35

      On a serious note how much do you think these miners should earn cause I said R7000 at least people say I'm crazy that's too much

      Paul Mphap - 2012-09-14 11:46

      uneducated foreman in the mine earns R40K per month, thats y these strikers demand 12.5 which is reasonable.

      deon.louw.7505 - 2012-09-14 12:03

      The mines will become unprofitable if these amounts are accepted, thus closed down. Remember they have ? 28 000 people working theire, to get these amounts to all will amount to R350 million per month, they will go down within 3 months.

  • simon.mwando - 2012-09-14 11:32

    20% not too bad in a corporate wrld!

  • linda.nzimamazibuko - 2012-09-14 11:34

    These employees were underpaid all along, I therefore think it is time to correct it!

      raymond.buis.3 - 2012-09-14 11:43

      What about people who went to university . How much should they be paid? Next thing ditch diggers will be demanding 8000 a month . Use your logic. It is completely absurd to expect that salary when all you did was a two week safety course .

  • mzondistanley - 2012-09-14 11:38

    To Church, Please stand up that Lonmine!! are to Blame leaving the situation to Break Loose, Compsation ought not to less than Half!! Above half of workers Demand!! They should be Proactive to Workers demands!!

  • Mkhululi Yekani - 2012-09-14 11:41

    Not a bad offer, bt this miners are askng 4 2 much. The are ppl who have dgrees nd diplomas who earn less then wat they are lukng 4, they are not skilld, 2 me they are askng 4 2 much.

  • John - 2012-09-14 11:44

    There is no such thing as an ILLEGAL STRIKE! Read section 23 (d) of the CONSTITUTION, which is YOUR RIGHT. YOU do not have the right to commit CRIMES while WITHHOLDING your LABOUR. The strikers are UNPROTECTED !! The strikes are NOT illegal !! That is why YOU can NOT be prosecuted for striking!

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