Johannesburg - Jimmy Manyi, the chairperson of the Employment Equity Commission and president of the Black Management Forum, has come clean in an exclusive City Press interview over his remarks on white women and affirmative action.
SQ: Are you surprised by the national debate that followed your comments?
JM: Not at all. The commentators have vested interests. They are not honest brokers. For example, trade union Solidarity wants to preserve white interests at all costs.
Others have been commenting out of sheer ignorance about what is going on in the workplace.
Can you explain what you mean by ignorance?
The commission is inundated with complaints of unpalatable practices in the workplace.
These complaints suggest that African female executives are unjustly overlooked and have to work 10 times harder to be recognised.
This newfound high tea and biscuit solidarity between some black female non-executive directors and white businesswomen is clearly not benefiting black female farm workers and other women in executive positions.
If the people who have crossed the working class space do not know what to say, then the best thing would be for them to keep quiet. They should not allow their comments to be used to derail transformation.
The same people did not comment when the trade and industry department said the empowerment codes were for the benefit of blacks. Their silence can be construed to mean that they agreed with that statement because it meant they would not face competition from white women in their deal-making processes.
The commission's argument means that there would be more back women, meaning more competition for them.
Has Reserve Bank Governor Tito Mboweni misunderstood the commission?
You must remember that Mboweni was labour minister at the time the act came into effect. He was probably protective of his work.
Things have moved on since then. We cannot solve today's problems at the same level of thinking as in 1996.
Why is the representation of white women a problem?
White women account for 5.5% of the economically active population. Their representation at top ?executive levels in companies is 14.7%, at senior management they are at 19% and middle management they are at 22%.
This suggests that they are over-represented in all three management levels.
All we have done is to ask South Africa whether white women should continue to benefit from employment equity legislation. The Employment Equity Act must have a lifespan. It will have achieved its goals when the playing field is level.
It is a sunset clause. As each group reaches the desired levels of representation, it must stop benefiting from the legislation.
If we argue differently in the case of white women, then we must bring back white males because clearly we have been discriminating against them.
Looking at the trends, African females and the disabled will be the groups to close the door on this legislation. What is the next step?
We are looking at public hearings where we will identify best practices and get input from all role players. We will then present our recommendations based on our findings and the outcomes of the public hearings to Labour Minister Membathisi ?Mdladlana.
How can the commission be more effective?
The commission needs the kind of infrastructure the South African Revenue Service has to effectively monitor compliance. You cannot do a proper job with a few people in the labour department.
What is the responsibility of black executives like you in pushing for transformation?
Black executives need to accept that if it were not for employment equity, they would not have been where they are. They must also not confuse employment equity with merit. Black people always had merit but they were overlooked. The law is an enabler. That means when they get there, they should be agents of change.
Why is it difficult to achieve transformation?
The issue has less to do with skills and training. It is about the attitudes of the gatekeepers.
To understand the challenge with attitudes, you need to look at the example of Peter Moyo at Alexander Forbes. He is a chartered accountant and has experience in a blue chip company. He has proven himself in his current job. But the company still saw the need to have a white executive chairperson supervising him. What more training does such a person need to be ready for the top job?
Have black executives done enough to drive transformation?
The people who have better leverage are the non-executive directors and shareholders. They can call a CE to account on transformation. That can be put in an agenda of a board meeting. Many of them attend board meetings but if you look at the number of complaints we receive from companies with black representatives, they are not effective.
They need to join the board sub-committees to better understand what the companies are doing.
If black non-executive directors find that they cannot effect transformation, then they should resign. Otherwise, these companies will continue to use them as ambassadors of intransigence who are sent to deal with real drivers of transformation.
- City Press