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By Alec Hogg
Life is full of paradoxes. I interviewed one of them yesterday. Themba Baloyi is the son of a teacher and a man with multiple wives. He was sent to extended family in a village in northern KZN to attend a small rural school with basic facilities. In many ways he typifies what politicians describe as "disadvantaged" - those of our nation who need to be uplifted for any chance at a meaningful life.
Yet the grown-up Themba Baloyi has an MBA from Henley, 11 Comrades Medals (including a Silver), operates at board level within one of the country's most admired corporations, and is credited with having had the idea, and perseverance, to create the revolutionary Discovery Insure. This year he was invited to join the elite group of Young Global Leaders at the World Economic Forum. And the lad raised in the hamlet of Annieville near Newcastle is still only 38.
What made Themba so different from thousands of others? The interview provided some pointers. But for me the key was his mentors. A grandmother who raised him to revere education; a boss who recognised the talent and encouraged him to nurture it elsewhere; an entrepreneurial giant who took the time to engage, to encourage, to challenge.
What gave Themba the edge was his humility - he trusted them, asked for guidance and listened. And when he followed these simple processes, magic happened. We learn so much more by listening rather than talking. And by appreciating that there is much we don't know.
I’m with Themba Baloyi here in the Biznews studio and I was delighted to discover that we come from a similar part of the country.
Wonderful. It was also an honour. I’ve known this for a while, while you were still doing your other shows and other radio stations.
Newcastle’s not known for producing academic giants, but MBA from Henley on your side, a discoverer, an innovator, a man who is the brains or the thought behind Discovery Insure. Let’s just track a little bit about your background because you grew up under the guidance of your grandmother.
Absolutely. I was born in Nelspruit and I went to grow up with my grandmother just between Newcastle and Dundee, a very small village there called Annieville. As you say, sometimes we don’t hear stories about great entrepreneurial exploits coming out of that part of the world. For me, what stood out was the thinking that I learned from my grandmother: it doesn’t matter where you find yourself, as long as you have the understanding that you can make a situation better. You can improve the environment you come from and that’s basically the reason why I’ve been so strong in pursuit of my purpose.
Just tell me a bit about the family unit. Were your parents then in Nelspruit, and felt it would be better for you to be brought up by your grandmother? How did that all work?
I was born in a very big family structure, which is typical of the African community where you would have a father who has many wives, and that was the scenario with my situation. To make life a bit easy (my mom was a teacher and she was spending most of her time at school, and there was no one to look after me), so there was a decision that I need to go and grow up with my grandmother because she was permanently there to look after us.
You’re a man who’s achieved much in a very ‘first world’ company but it is interesting; what you’ve just mentioned now about growing up in a family environment with a father having many wives. Is this something that you accept as part of your cultural heritage? Is it something you rebel against?
It’s interesting that you ask that question because my view is that while it may look romantic on the outside, the inner workings of that family structure is that it’s typically dysfunctional. I wouldn’t wish it on any child. As a matter of fact, I would find it very difficult to accept any one of my age group entering into such an arrangement. It’s just not practical. It’s expensive to start off with and also for the children, it’s not a very conducive environment to grow up in.
Are you married?
Absolutely. I have two kids.
One wife.
One wife. Absolutely. I just wouldn’t think of another scenario. One wife requires enough of my attention as things stand right now.
I suppose it’s just development. As we develop, we see that perhaps things change.
Absolutely. You’re spot on there. Culture is not static. I’ve never met or read of any cultural setup that has remained the same over the years. Culture evolves with time and I think that as individuals, we also grow and start seeing the world differently.
But your grandmother did a fine job. Where did you go to school?
Believe it or not, I went to a very small village school, Caca Primary School. It’s a school, which is probably not even taken seriously but it was basically in that school that I started seeing the world a little bit more differently.
Why? Was there a particularly good teacher who took an interest in you?
It was not specifically a teacher that I can remember. It was just being at school and the focus that my grandmother had on education. I’ll tell you a story, which I haven’t spoken about broadly. We never saw newspapers as garbage. My grandmother saw newspapers as an opportunity to read and obtain some valuable information. As a result, we used to collect newspapers and old magazines, and I would read these voraciously, from cover to cover. It’s unfortunate that today we have so much paper wastage and people don’t see its value. In my world, I see paper as something that could be used irrespective of what’s written on it.
It’s interesting. I had a dear friend who’s passed on, who was in the Karoo for many years. He said in Johannesburg, a tin can is a piece of rubbish but for us, it’s a cup.
Exactly. It’s just the way you look at the world. It’s your perception about the reality that you experience. As negative as other people might think my reality was, I saw some positives in that reality.
What brought you to the big city then?
Well, I then went back to my mum in 1989/1990, when I was doing Standard 7. It was after finishing off my Matric at the Lowveld College that I left for Durban to go and study there. Upon completing my studies, I worked at the Durban Metro Wastewater for a short while. My (then) boss, who I respect greatly and is still a good friend up until today, said to me in September (I recall very well) of ‘98 . I said to him ‘Dino, I am bored. I need something more challenging, something more exciting, based on my cost and management accounting training’. He said to me ‘Thembalini, let me be honest with you. There’s nothing here. You need to look for a job elsewhere if you want to grow’ and he was very supportive in that journey. In fact, I got that job at Siemens because of Dino. He would allow space for me to go for interviews. I didn’t have a vehicle at the time and so, to camouflage the situation, he would come and pick me up at my flat, leave my jacket in his motor vehicle, and I’d do the work. When the time for interviews came, he would drive me to the interview and say ‘we’re going to do a few inspections elsewhere in terms of whether the people are spending the council money correctly or not’. Yet, he knew very well that he was setting me up for success. You very rarely find such a leader in corporations. In many corporations, people are so self-absorbed that it’s very difficult to unleash that potential. That’s why Dino remains a friend up until today.
Do you try and apply that in your own life?
Certainly. My employees will tell you that in fact, (maybe my colleagues won’t appreciate this) there is an employee in my team who came to me and said ‘I am looking for an opportunity elsewhere’ and I’ve been very supportive of the journey because I realised I wouldn’t be here today. I wouldn’t be talking to you had it not been for Dino, so can’t we replicate the experiences for other people to grow and be who they’re supposed to be?
Now you’re at an incredible company, a company that most young South Africans – certainly, in Johannesburg – try to get into. Discovery has a long list of applicants for those that they do employ. You joined there in 2001 and flourished in that highly competitive environment. Do you think you were made for it?
I don’t know whether it’s ‘being made for it’ or if you evolve over time as you start understanding your environment. What I would advocate strongly is that you have to assimilate the lessons of whatever you are dealing with wherever you are. It could be applied in athletics. It could be applied in business. As long as you understand the environment and you’ve learned something substantive with it, then make it your own. I think the big mistake is that many people are waiting for handouts. They’re waiting for someone to guide them along. Sometimes, you won’t find those opportunities. It’s about you taking that leadership role because we are all leaders in our own right.
The big story though, as far as you are concerned and the one that’s kind of rocketed your career and made you a Young Global Leader of the World Economic Forum – given you lots of awards and accolades – is Discovery Insure. Take us through the thought process behind that.
Wow, this is an amazing story and it talks about removing yourself from that thinking that you must be allowed to do something. Dino taught me something very valuable in 1998. He said you must never ask for permission because permission is certainly not going to be given. You must ask for forgiveness because that’s the only thing that will (almost) always be given to you. In 2003, after Adrian had delivered one of those very inspirational speeches, I bumped into him. I had never met the guy.
Were you far down in the catacombs.
Absolutely. In the trenches, so to speak. I bumped into him and I told him it was a beautiful speech that he had just delivered – all the more reason I want to go and pursue my vision. I also speak about the importance of a vision for an individual because I genuinely have this vision that I want to build institutions that make a difference in the society, and that’s what I shared with Adrian in probably a less than five-minute conversation. He said ‘I love that vision. Why don’t you find something that we could do together?’ I thought about it and many people were saying ‘come on. He says this to everyone. What would make it so special for you?’ My immediate response was ‘he’s possibly spoken the same way to all other people, but how many people have taken him seriously and how many people have done anything about it?’ That’s how the journey commenced. It was purely on that naivety, if I were to put it that way. I suppose that in order to be an entrepreneur, sometimes you have to be naïve. You have to see the opportunity where people only see problems. I recall that in 2006, after probably delivery what I thought was one of my best works, I was told that it’s never going to fly. In fact, I got a call from Barry when he was back in the U.S., saying to me ‘what did you say to Adrian’ and I said ‘what do you mean’. He replied ‘because he’s asking too many questions. He’s asking if we should find you a better job or something bigger to do in the business. Just forget about this idea. It’s not going to fly’. It was out of that conversation…I remember when I went for my long midday run (and typically, I do that now and then where I sacrifice my lunch and go for a run) and it hit me that I’m not just going to accept what Barry’s telling me. I’m going to fight on because this is something I deeply believe in. In fact, it was by invitation from Adrian, to say ‘find something that we could do together’.
The people that you’re talking about (Barry Schwartz and Adrian Gore) are the Founders of Discovery, so you’re right at the top of the organisation, if you think about the people you’re engaging with.
Certainly, and it didn’t just happen by fluke. It was a long journey to get to have that conversation. I recall that in 2008, at a moment when everything had been exhausted and I was about to give up on the idea, there was this thought that just hit me. I haven’t spoken about this but I think I need to share that with your listeners. I was walking up the stairs to one of our cafés within the building and it hit me that if I walk away now, there are many young people who could be having the same dream or same vision to realise something big/massive and change society, who would probably never do it because they haven’t seen anyone try it. It was in that moment that it stopped being about me and about my vision, but it became a vision for so many young people who are coming behind us. It was that moment that I realised I’m going to push on and I’m going to make this thing happen.
It’s been an extraordinary success. It’s something that’s translatable globally. We’re already seeing people in other parts of the world getting onto what’s happened with Discovery Insure, but you’re not the CEO. Has that ever been something that’s caused resentment, given that it is your baby – your brainchild?
You’re asking a good question. I’ve been asked this question numerous times. I made a commitment in 2009 when I went to the Board that it was not going to be a repeat of Destiny Health in the U.S. The Board asked me a question. ‘How are you going to achieve that?’ I said ‘I have a very experienced and seasoned executive who’s going to come assist me in running this thing’. Whatever has happened since then, I’m happy that I’m in the right space and I’m seeing the fruits of the labour. For me, it was more about the success of this entity other than the opposition, other than anything that comes with it. Certainly, I know that as time lapses and as you acquire the experience, you feel ready to take on this thing and run with it. However, as things stand right now, I’m happy. Antoine is a very good Chief Executive of this business. I’m very comfortable with his leadership.
And before him, you got the best in the industry with Steffen Gilbert.
Wow, it was an amazing experience with Steffen because he was ‘retired’. He was based in Hong Kong and when I called him about the idea, he just wouldn’t see why this thing would take off. After several conversations with him, he was hooked. He joined us and he helped us launch the business.
Themba, you’re an achiever. Ten Comrades, according to the last bit of information. Is it going to be 11 this year?
Yes, the 11th medal.
Why do you do that?
This morning, I went for a run with Thulani (one of my running partners) and my feet were hurting because we did a 32 on Saturday and I broke a few toenails. As we were running, it just hit me for the first time that I’m doing this thing because I love doing what I’m doing and over and above that, it gives me the courage and persistence, which is desperately needed in our country. Very few people start a project with an end goal in mind. Even if they do have an end goal in mind, there are so many distractions along the way and they forget. Comrades gives me that focus. It gives me the space and the opportunity to master your body. What I was saying to a cousin of mine, who also wants to run the Comrades for the first time, is that you have to understand. It’s no longer just about the physical fitness. It’s about the mental fitness. For me, those are the powerful lessons that come out from being a Comrades runner – consistently going back on the regular, because we call each other ‘repeat offenders’ when you start on the grid number batch where you say ‘guys, how long have you been on this road’. Others are chasing 40th/42nd and you realise it has to do with the mental capacity to enjoy and to be persistent.
Are you a good runner?
I am good runner. I do have one silver at Comrades but of course, over the years being diabetic as well doesn’t make it easy. I’m a Type 1 Diabetic and I’m still hoping that one of these good days, I’ll have a sweet spot where I’ll be able to come back with another silver medal.
Are you a Tim Noakes supporter or critic?
Tim and I come a long way. I recall that in 2008, when he had to open up to me and say ‘listen Tim, I have to admit I was wrong’. I asked what this was all about (and we were running in the bush in the Drakensberg) and the guy says he wants to come out of the closet. He said ‘I was wrong about carb loading’ and quite frankly, the best two marathons I’ve done over the past 18 months, I did on carb load so it does seem to be working. I’ve had good experiences running with Bruce Fordyce as well. What I’ve seen is that he’s lost so much weight and is much leaner and much more efficient in his running, so maybe Tim has something that many scientists have not figured out yet.
What’s next for Themba Baloyi?
Of course, I’m still dreaming big. That vision is the same – it hasn’t changed – to build institutions and organisations that make a massive difference. I know we’re doing something in the form of Discovery Insure, but I really think there’s a big opportunity there. There are so many problems to be solved in this country and my sense is that entrepreneurs are best placed to solve those problems. I understand that the Government has a role, but I’ve never seen Government as the ultimate solution provider. Solutions come from entrepreneurial minds and personally, I’m continually exploring that opportunity.
Would that be with Discovery?
I’ll see as it goes along. I think Discovery would be a great partner. They’ve always been keen to be supportive when it comes to innovative ideas. Certainly, if it doesn’t fit within the Discovery environment, there’s always an opportunity to do something amazing with numerous other partners out there.
I’ve no doubt that with your Young Global Leader hat on, you’re going to meet many interesting people from all over the world. How did you get involved in that, with the World Economic Forum? That’s a very elite club.
Well, you’re nominate to be there. I had the opportunity of being nominated by Adrian Gore himself [inaudible 0:17:16.4]. In a way, I’ve been blessed to have met such great leaders, who are unselfish about their time and unselfish about the opportunities that they see in other people, and I’m hoping that many other leaders will emulate the same as I have.
How old are you now?
I’m 38, turning 39 in November.
So I think the Young Global Leaders is quite an extended program, but you have to be under 40 when you start.
Yes. Absolutely.
When do you start meeting the other members of this group?
I’ve already started. There have been a few meetings already and we’ve had the opportunity to discuss numerous issues that we think will take us forward. For me, the key thing is to raise South Africa’s competitiveness. We need to have a group of young entrepreneurial leaders who understand very well that this is not about us. This is about our country and the future of our children.
Themba, just to close off with, your mother was a teacher. Your grandmother believed a lot in education and you went to Henley for your MBA. It’s a good MBA course, but not the one that most people perhaps would jump into – UCT, Wits, and GIBS of course. What was it about Henley that appealed to you? You’ve become even more involved there by serving on the Academic Board.
Certainly. If you look at the Henley MBA, I had the opportunity to meet Professor John Vorster Pedley when I was doing my Leadership Advancement Program at UCTGSB and I was exposed to action learning. I realised that learning is so much more intense and so much more valuable because you’re using your first-hand personal experiences in fusing it with the academic rigour. That’s what really propelled me to say ‘I want an MBA that can achieve that’ and so, when I started my investigations I picked up that there were only three in South Africa. It was UCTGSB and Executive MBA, which I didn’t qualify for because I was under 30. I think I was under 36 so there was that qualification criteria. Secondly, it was UNISA SBL and then there was Henley MBA. For me, the Henley MBA appealed to me more, based on the fact that it has an international footprint as well. I started investigating and talking to people who have done their MBA and lo and behold; I realised that it was the route that I wanted to take.
But you’ve continued to become more involved in the institution.
Absolutely. I think that the education we want to have for our people in the country, is applied learning. I’m not taking anything away from the other MBA’s, but one thing I’ve learned and observed over time, is that there’s so much theoretical and case study work that people divorce that from the things that they’re experiencing on an ongoing basis. What I’ve picked up with the Henley MBA and the action learning philosophy is that infuses your personal experiences with all those case studies and the things you’ve observed in the world, so that you can come up with better decisions. For me, that’s why I decided I’d get involved more actively with them.
That’s one of the closest curricula that I’ve heard of to what Warren Buffett believes is what you should be teaching at business schools, which is case studies.
Absolutely, but your case studies must be relevant to your work environment. When I was in Australia, I was telling a colleague that I picked up the story of Bang & Olufsen in a case study when I was preparing for my exams at Henley. Many people didn’t know that Bang & OIufsen was almost bankrupt. When you look at it today in terms of its impact and its power, you realise there are powerful lessons that you as a business leader (whoever you are in the world, albeit in business or not), there are so many practical and relevant lessons that can be applied in your personal life instead of just leaving it to the theoretical level where you’re talking about an organisation that is farfetched from us.
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